Long idle times

[fatboycowen]

I recently installed some LED lights on my tractor. I use the tractor for moving firewood (one of the uses). Since it gets dark so early, I've been moving and splitting at night. I have no other light source near the splitter than the tractor.
Is there anything wrong with letting the tractor idle while i split a bucket load, so i can run the lights? I realize my tractor counts hours regardless of RPM. I don't really care that I'm putting hours on it, as the hours are already high (1260 now). I'm also not too concerned with fuel use.
Do long idle times hurt anything? It's probably 15 minutes or so at a time, as a guess. Maybe it's less. Then, up to 2k rpm to move to the wood pile, and stack the wood.

A separate question: How long should i be warming the tractor up on idle on colder days (say 20 to 30 degrees), before raising the RPMs to run the tractor?

 

[Trials]

Is it a diesel engine? My father-in-law always said that the hardest thing on a diesel was the moment of start-up, when there was no oil pressure to the bearings. By that logic it is better to leave a diesel engine at idle rather then turning it on and off frequently. Warmup time varies depending on many things such as the amount of water condensation or frost inside the engine, but basically you just need the engine oil up to operating temperature and you are good to go. Having a heater on your engine oil pan will greatly reduce the need for extensive warmup time.

20 to 30 degrees, heck that's not even cold. Once you hit -40 even metal becomes brittle, so be careful if you ever have to deal with that.

Batteries also operate at a much lower efficiency in extreme cold. In the range of 30% less efficient, so watch out for that when you are operating them at discharge. Most engines are equipped with alternators that do not generate much charge at idle, possibly even resulting in a slow discharge situation. ymmv.

 

[Billrog]

If I were idling for extended periods of time I'd set up the idle around 900 or a little more.

 

[CCWKen]

Check to see if the alternator is charging at idle. Many don't. If it isn't, you'll be running the lights off the battery. You might as well turn the engine off and save fuel. I just found out while diagnosing a dead battery that my 3910 doesn't start charging until the RPM is up around 800-900rpm. (The tach doesn't work so I'm guessing.) And I've owned it for about 10 years! All those times I've run it for exercise during non-use periods didn't help the battery. I'd run it at fast idle until it reached operating temperature then shut it down. I do this with all the equipment.

One of these days I'll get the new dash in it and get edgeumecated with some idiot lights. :ashamed:

 

[Gary Fowler]

Most diesel engine idle at 900 RPM, so I usually set mine just above Idle at 1000 RPM. I have not seen any problem doing this for extended periods of time. Many TBN contributors warn of "wet stacking" and other problems with long idle times but for most engines, anything less than 30 minutes of idling is not going to be a problem.
As mentioned, you may need a bit more than idle to recover the battery energy used if you have a large drain with many lights. Many CUTs have small alternators in the 40 amp range so idling may not produce the amps required to keep you battery charged if you are drawing a lot of amps.

As for warmup time, it varies a lot with temp. Many tractors have a warning light that indicates cold hydraulic temps and should not be moved at least till that light goes out, but this is usually just a few minutes or even seconds if the temps is not that low.
If you routinely use your tractor in temps below freezing, you should consider putting in a block heater so your engine is warmed prior to starting. If you have this, you could start moving within a minute or so of cranking. When I lived in Northern Alberta Canada where the temps were -30 to -40 C during most of the winter. I used a block heater AND let my engines warm for 10 minutes or so just to defrost the windows and warm the cab in the mornings. There is really no requirement to let an engine get to full operating temp before moving out (many diesels will not get to normal operating temp when idling regardless of the time allowed), just keep the RPMs down to around 1500 and drive off slowly after a 5 minute warm up. This will allow the engine to warm more efficiently than it will just setting still. As long as the oil is circulating properly after startup, that is really all you need.

For my location, about 1 minute @1000 RPM is all that is required for warmup since it rarely gets much below freezing. I never idle up above 1500 RPM for at least 5 minutes which is what it will usually take me to get out of the shed and to any work area anyway.

 

[farmer2009]

Most Diesel engines have a bad vibration at an idle. This results in water jacket pinging. Eventually causing holes to be worn in the ends of the water jackets. Mainly seen in the cylinder walls. It's caused by the water moving back and forth against the cylinder wall with the vibration. Takes many hours to form. To avoid bump throttle till engine smooths out say 1000-1200 rpm.

 

[PILOON]

Often when very cold my warm up consists of moving at just a tad above idle (1200rpm) in the lowest gear setting.
Gearing being what it is I figure there is really no strains on anything and that actually I help by having all the fluids circulating without straining.
I would do this only on flat areas as climbing a hill would lug the engine.
I also exercise the loader a few cycles to warm up the oils.
Oh, I do idle some, but not a whole lot, and add that I am usually plugged in for 1-2 hours prior.

 

[fatboycowen]

Thanks for all this. I believe my engine (Diesel) idles at 1000 per the book (I swear i've read it, but can't find it now), which is about what the tach shows.
I'll bump up the idle for longer periods of idle, and i'll check the charge at idle.
The alternator is 50amp.
The lights are LED and don't draw much. I believe all of them will draw about 10amps total (iirc), but i usually don't run them all at once.

 

[Bird]

I had a neighbor who had the opposite problem from cold. He was in the hay business, working alone most of the time, and had two air-conditioned John Deere tractors. Now if you shut one of those things down, out in the sun, it gets really hot in that cab in the summer. So when he went to bale hay, he used both of those tractors; one with the baler, one with the rake. So he'd rake awhile, bale awhile, rake some more, bale some more, etc. BUT he left both tractors running and the air-conditioners running all day; the one he wasn't using sitting there idling to keep the cab cool.

 

[jaydee325]

Google "excessive diesel engine idling" and you will get a ton of information why it is a bad idea.

 

[jenkinsph]

If you have a good battery and only need the lights for less than an hour I would use the battery instead of idling the engine.

 

[Billrog]

When it's real cold I usually raise the bucket up and down slowly a few times to get the hydraulic oil moving and warmed up a bit before driving slow for a ways ( my theory) to take some strain off the pump pushing thick H oil threw the system. With the backhoe the replace the hydraulic filter light comes on when real cold so I lift the rear wheels and put it in gear for 5 or 10 mins. before heading to work.

 

[newbury]

<snip>
Do long idle times hurt anything? It's probably 15 minutes or so at a time, as a guess. Maybe it's less. Then, up to 2k rpm to move to the wood pile, and stack the wood.

Only the environment.

A separate question: How long should i be warming the tractor up on idle on colder days (say 20 to 30 degrees), before raising the RPMs to run the tractor?

First question - does the tractor actually "warm up" much? I'd raise the RPM's fairly quickly.
I like to fire it up, do a walk around then "high idle" out of the barn in low gear.

 

[RoyJackson]

I leave mine idling at 1500 RPM. Low idle RPM can result in wet stacking (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_stacking).
When it's colder (20's or below), I leave it idling when I'm clearing snow (sometimes I have to hit areas too close to the house with a shovel).
So, if I was in the OP's situation, I'd leave it running, but at 1500 RPM.

 

[check]

Of course it depends upon what your manual says is "idle speed". My Kubota BX25 rattles like crazy when I first start it up in the cold, but if you rev it up even a little bit to, say, 1300 RPM or so, it smooths right out. And in fact, the manual says that you should warm it up at about half throttle, which is probably 1500 or so on my tractor. However, I warm it up at about 1300, and then I am good to go. If I were to let it run while I was using the lights like you need to, I would probably keep it at a minimum of about 1300, which I do not consider idling.

 

[bdog]

I would not worry a bit about 15 min. Increase your rpms to 1200 if it makes you feel better.

My peterbilt has over 25,000 hours on the clock. Many of that is from it idling all night keeping the driver warm or cool while he sleeps. I work out of my duramax in the oilfield and it runs all day while I am in it. Usually idles at least five hours a day. Is it the best thing for them? Probably not but it isn't going to kill them especially at the intervals you are talking about.

 

[skyhook]

Let er run as long as you need (in your case) just listen to the engine and if it purrs, I don't see a problem, IMO. I believe your engine will thank you for it as opposed to start's and stop's. Especially in colder weather.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I really don't worry about damage to a diesel from idling. If I get off mine to do a 2 minute chore that turns into 15 or 30 minutes, I don't worry about leaving the engine idling. My Kubota B26 idles at 900 RPM but I bump it to 1200 or so a few seconds after the engine starts. I then raise the FEL and gently move out of the shed within 1 minute of cranking. I don't load the engine or transmission when doing this and a little movement helps to warm things up. Since I only have mild winters (20F would be artic front weather and stay by the fire time) I don't need several minutes of warm up prior to going to work. I do keep the RPM down below 1500 for several minutes when I first start moving toward the work area. By the time I am ready to do some work, it has been 3-5 minutes (or more) and the engine and tranny are warm enough to work. I avoid lugging the engine at any time whether it is warmed or not.

On my Kubota RTV, warm up is ever how long it takes to get it in gear and then it is off to the point of interest that I need it to go.

 

[AxleHub]

It would seem that the answers to idle issues and startup/warmup efforts is going to seesaw and constantly vary from poster to poster wildly because of several issues:

1. Geographic location. "Cold" temps is defined by users in Canada much differently than Wisconsin which is different than Georgia.

2. Size of tractor and size of engine. More metal and more bulk.

3. Location and conditiond where tractor is stored.

4. Tier 3 vs. Tier 4 engine AND also size of engine in tier 4 determines canister or not canister . . fluid or not fluid etc. etc..

I haven't seen any commentary here relating to different needs or conditions based on tier 4 variables.