Loader joystick cable break

[mechtheist]

You can see the problem in the photo, it's a 3520H. It's the bucket control line, I can curl in but not out, at least I don't have to worry about the bucket falling to the ground.

OK, this may be a monumentally stupid question. I've read a number of threads here about replacing the cable and it seems like it ain't exactly a piece of cake. Considering what you can see here, would it be possible to weld the thing well enough to work? I have no experience with this stuff so please don't laugh too much if that's an idiotic idea. The last 4 or 5 times I had the tractor out, the joystick was kinda stuck, didn't want to move to the right to curl out, and I sorta hit it, with my hand and not very hard at all, and that freed it. I should have stopped using it and figured out what was going on.... Thanks for any info.

 

[K5lwq]

That is unfortunate for sure. I can not think of a good way to fix that cable. Replacing the cable may be somewhat of a pain but I think less of a pain than trying to fix that one.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

I think welding it would do more harm than good.

I don't think the rest of that area would take well to that much heat being applied there.

 

[mechtheist]

It would just be the cable ends getting hot. From another thread, Cougsfan posted this photo. My thinking was to just turn eveerything right at the junction of the end piece and the cable into one chunk of metal. And add in the usual massive grinding that comes with being the expert welder that I am.

 

[FastEddieR]

solder it in, and recrimp the fitting. That's what I would try before replacing it.

 

[Popgadget]

I would just put it back together and crimp it. But I have the tools to do it.

 

[mechtheist]

Thanks for the replies. I have this thing that's for crimping huge electric wires, could you do an adequate job with that?

I haven't taken it apart yet so I'm not even sure what the cable end looks like. Is the threaded part attached with some kind of sleeve to be crimped or is it one piece and is it a standard that can be purchased?

 

[Cougsfan]

Maybe solder then try to crimp. As you already know, I had the same thing happen on my 4720. Under warranty they sent me an entire joystick with the cables attached, which, I was told is the only way they sell it (Around $450 if I remember right), so it it definitely worth a try to fix it. To replace the cable is one of those chores if you have done it once, it is cumbersome but not too bad. If you are trying to figure it out for the first time, the connections at the bottom end of the cable are confusing and not intuitive at all, not to mention hard to get to.
The threaded part attaches to the cable via a crimped sleeve. The metal on the sleeve is pretty tough so crimping may be difficult, which is why I suggest soldering first. I don't think it takes too much to hold it. I actually used several plastic ties jury rigged to hold the cable into the sleeve which got me by until the warranty replacement item came.

 

[Cougsfan]

I just went out and checked. I actually used a tiny hose clamp around the cable, with wire connected to 2 ea light weight turnbuckles (one on each side), that were secured with wire to the joystick base for my temporary solution. It worked just fine. I do still have a spare cable now, but it is for a 4720ch which may be a different length. I'd still suggest trying to solder it first, as changing the entire cable is a pain. Remember, you are only trying to secure the outer shield. The inner cable must slide freely. Over crimping may cause the inner cable to not be able to slide.

 

[ptsg]

Doesn't these cables have some sort of nylon or teflon tubing inside to help reduce the friction of the cable? I wonder if any heat will make a mess of everything that is plastic or rubber.

 

[Cougsfan]

Possibly if you could find some heavy duty heat shrinking tube (like used in high voltage applications) Maybe you could slide that over both the outer cable and sleeve. After you shrink it, put on 2 small hose clamps to further secure them, one on the cable sheath, the other on the sleeve. I would bet that would work long term. In fact maybe a piece of poly tube with the right id, split lengthwise to install, and secured with hose clamps might even be easier.

 

[Cougsfan]

Doesn't these cables have some sort of nylon or teflon tubing inside to help reduce the friction of the cable? I wonder if any heat will make a mess of everything that is plastic or rubber.

You are probably right Pedro

 

[ptsg]

You are probably right Pedro

I remember reading something about that from a joystick cable manufacturer feature list some time ago, but I'm not entirely sure though.

Anyways, found a supplier of these cables in Poland. Maybe one of these will fit these application, just need to check the dimensions:

Control Cables for Tractor Loader Valves – Fork & Ball End

Durable control cables for Badestnost, Walvoil, AKON, Kubota & more. Available in various sizes to fit most tractor loader valve systems.

www.hydraulic-master.com

Also, found a video on how to assemble these cables:

 

[mechtheist]

I just went out and checked. I actually used a tiny hose clamp around the cable, with wire connected to 2 ea light weight turnbuckles (one on each side), that were secured with wire to the joystick base for my temporary solution. It worked just fine. I do still have a spare cable now, but it is for a 4720ch which may be a different length. I'd still suggest trying to solder it first, as changing the entire cable is a pain. Remember, you are only trying to secure the outer shield. The inner cable must slide freely. Over crimping may cause the inner cable to not be able to slide.

That's was all very MacGyver of you. It's the usual fist attempts for me too and I won't have the warranty coming to the rescue.

If you look at my photo, is the outer shield that band that looks like it got ripped that runs across the middle of the bit of the cable that's visible? The kinda brass-colored metal looks like it's a crimp, but that isn't the crimp to the cable right? Or are you saying that the crimp is to that sleeve? I'll have time later this PM to mess with it so I still don't know what I'm talking about.

 

[mechtheist]

Doesn't these cables have some sort of nylon or teflon tubing inside to help reduce the friction of the cable? I wonder if any heat will make a mess of everything that is plastic or rubber.

If there is, I don't see it in the photo. You'd think at least some bits of it would be visible even if it got really torn up.

 

[mechtheist]

I remember reading something about that from a joystick cable manufacturer feature list some time ago, but I'm not entirely sure though.

Anyways, found a supplier of these cables in Poland. Maybe one of these will fit these application, just need to check the dimensions:

Control Cables for Tractor Loader Valves – Fork & Ball End

Durable control cables for Badestnost, Walvoil, AKON, Kubota & more. Available in various sizes to fit most tractor loader valve systems.

www.hydraulic-master.com

Also, found a video on how to assemble these cables:

Thanks, I'll check out. I saw that video in another thread and it's full of good info. It doesn't quite go to what I need right now but it showed me what was inside the thing which I had no idea.

 

[LouNY]

I would not think of welding or soldering on that cable.
I could be wrong but I believe that the outer jacket is supposed to be secured by the compressed piece NOT the inner cable,
the inner cable has to be able to move inside the fixed outer jacket.
On my cables the joystick end terminates in a ball that the control yoke pulls and pushes on and the other end of the inner cable has a small threaded end which attaches to a clevis which in turn attaches to the valve spool.
Both ends of the outer jacket are secured which allows the inner cable to move back and forth.

 

[ericm979]

Lou your description is correct. That looks like "compressionless" housing- instead of the metal wire in the housing being a spiral, which compresses, it's mostly parallel wires. I've used a smaller version for bicycle derailleur cables. This one looks like it's got a thin spiral on the outside to help keep the housing wires in place.

It's hard to tell from the pic if the housing wires broke in the ferrule or just came out. If they came out then maybe you could carefully epoxy them back into place. Ideally with the cable removed so you don't epoxy that in there by accident. I'm not sure the cables are easy to remove from the housings though.

I think you'd do better to replace the cables and housings as a unit. Surplus Center seems to have some that might work. Also these folks: Koyker Loader Joystick Replacement Parts

 

[mechtheist]

Ok, I did a little more disassembly but didn't get far. See pix. I got the threaded piece off the housing on the broken cable, I could turn it by hand, but the non-broken one won't turn very far because it's constrained by the green sleeve which seems to have a metal inner sleeve. I think the threaded part is supposed to be separate from the bit that looks like it's crimped onto the green sleeve an likely metal inner sleeve. See the photo from the Short line. I didn't realize it when i was out there messing with it. It has to be separate or else there's no way to get it assembled, you could do one by spinning the housing but the 2nd one would bind.

I may have another problem because if you look closely, you can see the cable between the green sleeve and the metal which I guess is the ferrule? In the first pic above, you can see there is a metal inner sleeve that is torn, so I think I should see that metal sleeve instead of cable. I need to get the cable out from the housing so I can see exactly how it's broken which means getting the balls out of the triangular joint thing, but, yeah, it ain't easy, probably impossible without getting the bit with the ball well out from the housing. I've about used up my reserve will to live for the day so I'll have another go tomorrow. The 2 on the left are Short Line.

I really appreciate all the input.

 

[ericm979]

I think it's shortline parts who has a video on youtube explaining how to disassemble and reassemble the joystick and replace the triangle piece.

The cables may thread into the valve and you'd have to do that when the cable is removed from the joystick. I think the valve comes apart too. A lot of these valves are modular and you can change them from cable activated to lever activated, but I don't know how that works.