Loader Hydraulics (Left is slower than the right)

[magbag]

I知 almost certain I purchased this tractor with this issue. I have a John Deere 4500 series tractor with a 460 loader.
Soon after I purchased it I noticed that the sheer pin had broken from stabilizer bar that controls bucket tilt\dump function.
Yesterday I swapped the right hydraulic cylinder to the left and then left to right, still after the swap the right is much faster.
Checked all the lines and no dents or bends. Fluid level is ok. No leaks. Fluid is fresh and clean.
This is really getting to be a pain when I take the bucket on and off the right is so much faster and I致e proven this is not a cylinder issues by swapping them.
If I replace the sheer pins it just breaks them off the first time so I've given up on replacing them.
I see there is an older post up on this site but leads to a dead end for a resolution.
Any thoughts?

 

[LD1]

What are the shear pins you are talking about?

IF the cylinders arent the issue, it sounds like you have a mechanical binding issue? OR siezed pin.

 

[magbag]

I知 almost certain I purchased this tractor with this issue. I have a John Deere 4500 series tractor with a 460 loader.
Soon after I purchased it I noticed that the sheer pin had broken from stabilizer bar that controls bucket tilt\dump function.
Yesterday I swapped the right hydraulic cylinder to the left and then left to right, still after the swap the right is much faster.
Checked all the lines and no dents or bends. Fluid level is ok. No leaks. Fluid is fresh and clean.
This is really getting to be a pain when I take the bucket on and off the right is so much faster and I致e proven this is not a cylinder issues by swapping them.
If I replace the sheer pins it just breaks them off the first time so I've given up on replacing them.
I see there is an older post up on this site but leads to a dead end for a resolution.
Any thoughts?

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...03163186-460-loader-tilt-cylender-lag-460-gif

Check out this link its number 8 in the picture. Nothing is binding all parts are free checked all of them yesterday not worn bad at all.

 

[J_J]

Can you tilt the bucket by hand with very little resistance?

One cyl can be slower that the other due to piston seal wear.

Do you have a hyd gage?

Cap off one bucket cyl and read the max pressure on the operating cyl.

Then cap off the other one and check the remaining cyl for max pressure.

They both should cause the relief valve to operate.

If it is not a cyl problem, it has to be a mechanical one.

 

[magbag]

After reconnecting both cylinders after swapping I cycled both without anything connected and the left was very slow coming out. After about 8 inches it starts to move with speed on the down cycle and is the same on the return cycle.

 

[J_J]

The cyl having the least resistance will operate first.

 

[LD1]

Are you actually breaking part #8? Or are you breaking the pin that keeps it from rotating (part #4?)

If part #4, either it isnt pivoting like it should (where it should) or the loader arms are tweaked themselves.

Hopefully others will chime in and be of more help. As I am not familiar with that loader. But if the loader arms arent tweaked, and everything is well greased and rotates freely, you shouldnt be breaking anything

 

[JD5210]

Part 8 is the timing rod, you may find the following URL of help. While it speaks the 5000 tractor loaders, I would think it also applies to your loader.

Bucket Cylinders do not Extend Equally : Bucket cylinders and loader quick attach brackets are held in alignment by the timing rod.

 

[magbag]

I do not have a gauge to test but will look into getting one.

Didn't I disprove a cylinder issue by swapping left to right though?

You can see clearly how fast the right moves faster than then left and the end result is sheering off the pins.

 

[J_J]

If he has been operating the loader that way for very long, with one cyl much stronger than the other, he has already tweaked something.

Check and see if the cyl is bypassing /leaking internally.

 

[magbag]

You know I was thinking of doing this yesterday and sounds like a great option.

 

[magbag]

Don't forget I swapped the cylinders yesterday with the same slow results from the right cylinder.

 

[J_J]

Can you make the relief valve activate using bucket curl, up and down?

If you cain't, then one or both cyl are weak.

 

[LD1]

Are the cylinders hooked to anything when you are testing them for speed?

Could be a something in the lines or hoses causing more flow to one cylinder vs the other.

 

[magbag]

For the test I didn't have them connected to anything, I will check the left hose there is one that was left behind from the cylinder swap.

 

[LD1]

Do if you did the test with the cylinders not hooked to anything at all and the right was slow. Then swapped cylinders not attached to anything at all, and the right was still slower??

For now that rules out anything mechanical with the loader cause they werent hooked to anything. And would rule out the cylinder. Only thing left is the individual lines. You should have 2 lines coming off the valve. One for curl and one for dump. They should each go into a tee somewhere and get split between the cylinders. You need to look between the tee and the cylinder.

But I would also caution you to make sure you got all of the air bled out of the system.

 

[magbag]

So I don't know a whole heck of a lot on hydraulic however I would assume both cylinders be pretty evenly matched when nothing is connected on the downward stroke and back stroke right?

 

[LD1]

So I don't know a whole heck of a lot on hydraulic however I would assume both cylinders be pretty evenly matched when nothing is connected on the downward stroke and back stroke right?

Provided all the air is out of the system, they should be close. The one that has the longest hose after the tee could be a little slower. But fluid is going to take the path of least resistance. The loader frame should be rigid enough with both hooked up to overcome whatever small differences there are in the cylinders, provided they are both the same size.

Do the cylinders look like they are an identical matched set? or did someone change one at some point, perhaps to a slightly larger one. like going from a 50mm cylinder to a 2" cylinder??

Do you have any actual pictures and not the parts diagram of your loader, cylinders, and the part you are breaking. I am having a hard time getting a visual.

 

[J_J]

One more time, will the loader valve activate the relief when you use the curl cyl?

If so, then the cyl are performing up to the set relief.

If even one cyl is leaking, you probably will not be able to hit relief pressure, and you are working at the leaking cyl performance level.

If you have QD's, re-set them.

Did you try the curl cyl in the lift cyl work ports?

 

[magbag]

I drilled out the 1/4 inch sheer pin holes on the equalizer bar to 3/8 and put in 3/8 grade 8 bolts it seemed to do the trick from earlier mentioned in the post. I will fully test this weekend have a few buckets of dirt to move.

Many thanks for all your responses.

Magbag