Ballast Loaded Tires - any down sides?

Jay4200 · Apr 7, 2011

caspar3259 said:
Thanks for all the comments. The tractor I'm looking at is a Kubota L3800, so HP in the mid-30's and weight around 2600 (w/o attachments, I presume). Most likely R4 tires.

The main work will be clearing snow and maintaining driveway & road. Some leveling and tree/stump removal. No lawn work. Attachments are likely to be FEL, backhoe, box blade, maybe rear snow blower, maybe front blade. I still work at my desk job, so it will be a weekend warrior most of the time.

I avoided loading my tires on my L4200 specifically to keep the weight down. I typically carry a Woods 9000 backhoe, so there is plenty of weight there. With the backhoe mounted, my trailer weight is ~8000 pounds or so (~6k tractor, ~2k trailer), which is already pushing the limits of my pickup. I like the lighter setup for raking my road and pulling grading blades (have 4x4 if I need traction), however, it got a little sketchy a few times while doing some loader work without the backhoe attached this summer...I'd call loaded tires a must have for heavy (dirt, rocks) loader work - unless you have a backhoe installed. Air is fine for snowblowing too, provided you have chains, but you might be better off with filled tires if you are pushing a snowplow.

JayC

JDgreen227 · Apr 8, 2011

Chilly807 said:
As far as the added cost of tire repairs, it's not as much as some would think.

I recently had a rear tire on my L3400 (same size as your L3800) drained, broken down to check for a leak and remounted, refilled. With a new tube installed, the whole bill was less than $100 including labour. That's not steep by any standards.

If you do go with liquid ballast, I would recommend installing tubes in the filled tires. No matter what fluid is going in them, it's peace of mind that the rims won't corrode prematurely. Mine has calcium chloride, which is highly corrosive to steel if it's not in a tube.

I think you'll find the tractor more stable with filled rears, no question there. The L series is light to begin with, added weight on that end is beneficial for almost any work except mowing.

If you're going to move any amount of snow, you'll probably need chains, even with R1's and 4wd. Granted I have more snow to deal with here, but I soon put the chains on once we get any amount to speak of.

Sean

Good informational post, but just curious...
Was that cost for having a service truck come to your place to fix the tire, or did you remove the rim from the tractor yourself and take it to a shop? Around here it is usually a $80 minimum just to have a serviceman show up at your door...

Chilly807 · Apr 8, 2011

That was with me delivering the tire and rim to them. They charge $55 for a service call, which is pretty reasonable. I was pretty confident I could handle the loaded tire and rim, and was right for the most part.

As long as you take your time and keep the tire upright, it's not too bad. I loaded it on a trailer with a fairly low deck height. If I had to pick it up into the back of a truck, I would have needed two of me, maybe three to be safe. Once I had it on it's side on the trailer, I could move it around with a peavey/crowbar. Sliding it without leverage wasn't much of an option.

They're not light by any stretch of the imagination, even the smaller 11.2x24 R1's on the L3400 probably weigh in excess of 300 pounds when filled, but that's the intent.

One benefit we haven't discussed is the lack of bounce with filled tires. It acts like a damper on the back end of the tractor.

Sean

JDgreen227 · Apr 8, 2011

Chilly807 said:
That was with me delivering the tire and rim to them. They charge $55 for a service call, which is pretty reasonable. I was pretty confident I could handle the loaded tire and rim, and was right for the most part.

As long as you take your time and keep the tire upright, it's not too bad. I loaded it on a trailer with a fairly low deck height. If I had to pick it up into the back of a truck, I would have needed two of me, maybe three to be safe. Once I had it on it's side on the trailer, I could move it around with a peavey/crowbar. Sliding it without leverage wasn't much of an option.

They're not light by any stretch of the imagination, even the smaller 11.2x24 R1's on the L3400 probably weigh in excess of 300 pounds when filled, but that's the intent.

One benefit we haven't discussed is the lack of bounce with filled tires. It acts like a damper on the back end of the tractor.

Sean

ANOTHER good informational post...and now I am glad I didn't have my rear tires loaded. That 300 pounds would outweigh me by double.

k0ua · Apr 8, 2011

Back in '92 I had a flat on my old Long 2360 with CaCl in it. I jacked up the tractor, and blocked it up. With the tire just barely off the ground, then rolled the tire upright to the front of the tractor, and used a chain and the front end loader to raise it enough to drive the pickup truck under it, then lowered it. Reversed the procedure to replace wheel on hub. Boy was it fun getting wheel back on hub. I used prybars to position wheel, while wife balanced it. Wheel, fluid and tire weighed well over 600 lbs. If it had ever fallen over, there would have been now way to ever get it back up.:ashamed: But was fairly easy to roll around upright. Safety police need not comment. I would not do it again, I would just call the tire guy.

James K0UA

LBrown59 · Apr 8, 2011

caspar3259 said:
Are there any down sides to the extra weight?
-Jeff

They are so heavy they are a problem to remove repair an replace .
I have 3 BXs.with unloaded tires that work fine for me .
I just have no need/use for loaded tires.

slowzuki · Apr 8, 2011

I'll add, check with tire supplier. Local guy is 800$ to come, remove cacl, remove tube and replace and reload on a 16.9 x 30 vs 200$ if no cacl. Plus, without cacl, its a whole lot easier to take it to them.

JDgreen227 · Apr 8, 2011

slowzuki said:
I'll add, check with tire supplier. Local guy is 800$ to come, remove cacl, remove tube and replace and reload on a 16.9 x 30 vs 200$ if no cacl. Plus, without cacl, its a whole lot easier to take it to them.

At THAT price differential, cast weights or no weight at all look a LOT better. The more I read this thread, the happier I am I didn't have it done to my rear tires. Thanks...:thumbsup:

k0ua · Apr 8, 2011

First thing is dont use CaCL, that requires a tube, and that is no good, use a non rusting fluid, and tubeless tires. Then use a plug to repair the tire on the tractor, by turning the hole up out of the fluid, and then plug the tire. If that is not possible then you will have to remove the tire, or call the tire guy. No one wants to deal with the nasty CaCl. solution. that will rust your tractor if it sprays on it, and shrinks leather (shoes, and gloves), and dries out your hands if it gets on them. No wonder some people charge so much to repair.. When I had the flat in the tubed tire filled with CaCl, I took the tire in and IIRC it was about 15 dollars to pump it out and have it repaired, and pump the fluid back in. Of course that was a "while" ago. Loaded tires can be a pain to deal with if you have a flat, but the benefits outweigh the downsides, if you need them, and I do. If you don't need them, then don't get them.

James K0UA

Gary Fowler · Apr 8, 2011

X2 for K0ua comments. The benefits outweigh the complaints but only if you need the extra weight and traction. So far I havent put any water in my LS tires but have wished for it many times when the rears come off the ground with a heavy load of dirt in the FEL. If you do any kind of ground engaging task, then you will save wear on your tires more by reducing slippage than you will cause by carrying the extra 200-300 pounds of weight.
I have all the equipment I need to ballast mine, well may need some larger hydraulic jacks for my 7000+ pound tractor, just havent taken the time to do it. If I had the money, I would put cast iron and water ballast in mine just for the traction when using the loader.

Jay4200 · Apr 8, 2011

I forgot about the getting a flat part. I picked up a nail in one of my rears this summer. As soon as I noticed myself riding crooked, I lifted the back end with the 'hoe stabilizers, then popped off the wheel and rolled it to my porch. There, I popped the bead, pulled out the tube through the gap and stuck on a bicycle tube patch. I aired the tire back up, rolled it back to the tractor, put it back on and was back in business. Total elapsed time ~15 minutes (including sending "The Boy" to the corner store for the patch kit) and total cost was $2 for the tube patch kit. $800 to fix a flat? Krike'...I can get a brand new tire AND fill it for less than that! Even $200...I wouldn't even consider it.

I seem to remember thinking, "dang glad I didn't ever fill these things - I don't think I would've even tried to unmount/mount a 500 pound tire. No way - would've killed myself. Yea, now I remember why I didn't want to load my tires.

JayC

JDgreen227 · Apr 8, 2011

Jay4200 said:
I forgot about the getting a flat part. I picked up a nail in one of my rears this summer. As soon as I noticed myself riding crooked, I lifted the back end with the 'hoe stabilizers, then popped off the wheel and rolled it to my porch. There, I popped the bead, pulled out the tube through the gap and stuck on a bicycle tube patch. I aired the tire back up, rolled it back to the tractor, put it back on and was back in business. Total elapsed time ~15 minutes (including sending "The Boy" to the corner store for the patch kit) and total cost was $2 for the tube patch kit. $800 to fix a flat? Krike'...I can get a brand new tire AND fill it for less than that! Even $200...I wouldn't even consider it.

I seem to remember thinking, "dang glad I didn't ever fill these things - I don't think I would've even tried to unmount/mount a 500 pound tire. No way - would've killed myself. Yea, now I remember why I didn't want to load my tires.

JayC

Can you tell us what you used to pop the bead with...have never had to remove a tire bigger than those on my JD 318 rears from a bead, I remember now what a b---h it was to loosen those little tires, what does it take for a big one? Clamp, or hammer and wood block?

caspar3259 · Apr 8, 2011

I haven't gone back through the postings to double check, but it seems that folks who vote against loaded tires have never had them. Most people who have them are glad they do!

-Jeff

dmay · Apr 8, 2011

caspar3259 said:
Thanks for all the comments. The tractor I'm looking at is a Kubota L3800, so HP in the mid-30's and weight around 2600 (w/o attachments, I presume). Most likely R4 tires.

The main work will be clearing snow and maintaining driveway & road. Some leveling and tree/stump removal. No lawn work. Attachments are likely to be FEL, backhoe, box blade, maybe rear snow blower, maybe front blade. I still work at my desk job, so it will be a weekend warrior most of the time.

Your primary roles and attachments will benefit from loaded tires, so load them up. Standard on that tractor is R1. With no lawn work planned I would stick with R1.

caspar3259 · Apr 8, 2011

dmay said:
Your primary roles and attachments will benefit from loaded tires, so load them up. Standard on that tractor is R1. With no lawn work planned I stick with R1.

Not to change the thread topic, but the dealer suggested R4 would be better as they "would not tear up the dirt driveway / road" as much as R1s.

Is there a consensus that R1s provide better traction in snow and dirt than R4s? Is there ever a consensus on this forum? :laughing: Maybe I should ask if it's generally accepted that R1s provide more traction than R4s...

Seems to me that R4 give more rubber in contact with the ground, but R1 has "bigger tread" that digs in more. I can see the traction winner going either way.

-Jeff

TripleR · Apr 8, 2011

caspar3259 said:
Not to change the thread topic, but the dealer suggested R4 would be better as they "would not tear up the dirt driveway / road" as much as R1s.

Is there a consensus that R1s provide better traction in snow and dirt than R4s? Is there ever a consensus on this forum? :laughing: Maybe I should ask if it's generally accepted that R1s provide more traction than R4s...

Seems to me that R4 give more rubber in contact with the ground, but R1 has "bigger tread" that digs in more. I can see the traction winner going either way.

-Jeff

Gee, come to think of it, I don't think that has ever been discussed on here, wonder why.:laughing::laughing::laughing:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...isons/183932-ag-tires-vs-industrial-tire.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...isons/199728-do-you-like-your-industrial.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ating/145913-ag-bar-tire-industrial-tire.html

And the list goes on.

dmay · Apr 8, 2011

caspar3259 said:
Not to change the thread topic, but the dealer suggested R4 would be better as they "would not tear up the dirt driveway / road" as much as R1s.

Is there a consensus that R1s provide better traction in snow and dirt than R4s? Is there ever a consensus on this forum? :laughing: Maybe I should ask if it's generally accepted that R1s provide more traction than R4s...

Seems to me that R4 give more rubber in contact with the ground, but R1 has "bigger tread" that digs in more. I can see the traction winner going either way.

-Jeff

R1 = dirt
R3 = lawn
R4 = compromize

Your not doing lawn work so no need to compromize.

Think of all the really BIG tractors running R1's heading up and down driiveways, roads, across lawns, hay and dirt fields every day. Somehow all avoiding not to tear things up. I used to own a Massey 265 with loaded R1's and drove across my lawn pulling equipment every time I needed to get out to the hay field or horse pasture. I never tore things up.

knightrider955 · Apr 8, 2011

Only downside is crazy weight if your gonna haul it anywhere. My loaded tires add 1700 lbs to my tractor that already weighs 5000 lbs plus my 2200 lb trailer. My yukon didnt want to haul it and really felt unsafe. Plus the tongue weight killed it. I had to buy a Ford F-350 with a V-10. Thats how much I love my tractor lol.

art · Apr 8, 2011

You seem to be needing back forty work done for the bulk or more then 95% of the time from your description.

From that I still stand on the wheel weights but thats your choice.

Not to many people get to have as many makes and models to play with that I do.
I had two B-2910 tractors to play with in winter conditions in the same season. Both with loaders and aftermarket cabs complete Kubota outfits and on my paved driveway. One with industrial tires and one with turf tires both with unloaded tires. The one with industrial tires was the easiest to use as it would spin out when pushing large amounts of snow(well more then a bucket full) the one with the turfs would actually pick the front tires off the ground while pushing!!!! I do scape it bare, after all what do we clean the driveway for but to make it bare!!!

I've done this before with other tractors, the turf will give better traction on driveway do to more tire on the ground. I didn't have an oppertunnity to try ag tires although I'd say they would be more like the turfs then industrial do to the tires flexibility.

Now back to your issues, The industrials will give better traction on good going then ag tires do to the larger foot print and bar angle, they also would tend to rut less with constant drive over. The ag tires will give you more traction in adverse conditions. The skinny bars will drop in further then an industrial tire and will and flex more.

Industrial tires on compacts are almost like loaders! They are on most compact tractors sold.

I've heard that the calcium is a better ballast then cast for side hills, we sell a lot of compacts with cast as well as big farm tractors with cast and central NY is loaded with hills! We will often have to demo because of pucker factor on the terrain we have here and we have always done well!!! We do stress good balance!!!

We still load tires for those that feel the need as well as fix them$$$$