LIQUID TIRE BALLAST - WHAT FLUID TO CHOOSE

[fried1765]

Ford850:
Oops !!
I said propylene glycol in my earlier post, when I meant ethylene glycol.
Ethylene glycol is the automotive antifreeze, and should NOT be used in anything but an engine cooling system.
RV antifreeze is propylene glycol.
Sorry to add confusion to this discussion.
Just did a bit of enquiring about a methanol/water mix.
From a graph, it shows that I would need 24 gallons of methanol to bring the total gallons required down to my desired 0F freezing point.
At $5+ per gal. for methanol (and difficult to find) I don't think I'll be trying that.
Methanol is also highly flammable.

 

[AxleHub]

Ford850:
Oops !!
I said propylene glycol in my earlier post, when I meant ethylene glycol.
Ethylene glycol is the automotive antifreeze, and should NOT be used in anything but an engine cooling system.
RV antifreeze is propylene glycol.
Sorry to add confusion to this discussion.
Just did a bit of enquiring about a methanol/water mix.
From a graph, it shows that I would need 24 gallons of methanol to bring the total gallons required down to my desired 0F freezing point.
At $5+ per gal. for methanol (and difficult to find) I don't think I'll be trying that.
Methanol is also highly flammable.

Isn't methanol a no-good item for hands and ground ??

 

[joea99]

There is something called propylene glycol. Similar anti freeze properties but is "non toxic" at least in small quantities. It is GRAS by FDA for use in foods stuff.

I used it years ago with Borax to make an anti insect soak for wood.

No idea of current prices.

 

[fried1765]

Here are my home freezer sample results:

At 0F, undiluted RV antifreeze makes slush, 3 parts RV to 1 part water = slushy flakes, 2 RV to one part water = icy flakes, 1 to one ratio = very icy flakes -semi solid.
Undiluted -20F windshield washer fluid is 100% liquid at 0F.
I do not know what beet juice does, as I have none to experiment with.
RV antifreeze is 3 times more expensive than washer fluid. Beet juice is 5 times more expensive than washer fluid.
Yes; windshield washer fluid has a methanol component, that may be somewhat detrimental to the environment, but that only becomes an issue if a filled tire should go flat.
I have had at least one tractor for 45 years, (currently have 3) and have never had a rear tire go flat.
I pay close attention to equipment condition.

For the 80 gal. I need: -20F Washer fluid ..... $90
Beet juice ..... $450+
RV antifreeze ..... $270
calcium chloride ..... NEVER !!!

I will pick up 80 gal. of -20F windshield washer fluid next week.

If we are concerned about the environmental impact of a POSSIBLE leaky tire filled with washer fluid, perhaps we should instead direct our attention to the gasoline and/or diesel fumes that emit from that tractor every single minute that it operates.
The BEST way to avoid any environmental impact from a tractor just may be to leave it in the barn ..... (and with NO FLUID in the tires)!

 

[fried1765]

Here are my home freezer sample results:

At 0F, undiluted RV antifreeze makes slush, 3 parts RV to 1 part water = slushy flakes, 2 RV to one part water = icy flakes, 1 to one ratio = very icy flakes -semi solid.
Undiluted -20F windshield washer fluid is 100% liquid at 0F.
I do not know what beet juice does, as I have none to experiment with.
RV antifreeze is 3 times more expensive than washer fluid. Beet juice is 5 times more expensive than washer fluid.
Yes; windshield washer fluid has a methanol component, that may be somewhat detrimental to the environment, but that only becomes an issue if a filled tire should go flat.
I have had at least one tractor for 45 years, (currently have 3) and have never had a rear tire go flat.
I pay close attention to equipment condition.

For the 80 gal. I need: -20F Washer fluid ..... $90
Beet juice ..... $450+
RV antifreeze ..... $270
calcium chloride ..... NEVER !!!

I will pick up 80 gal. of -20F windshield washer fluid next week.

If we are concerned about the environmental impact of a POSSIBLE leaky tire filled with washer fluid, perhaps we should instead direct our attention to the gasoline and/or diesel fumes that emit from that tractor every single minute that it operates.
The BEST way to avoid any environmental impact from a tractor just may be to leave it in the barn ..... (and with NO FLUID in the tires)!

 

[Ford850]

Great test! I appreciate you doing this and posting results.
As for WWF and the environment... I think anyone with filled tires has a responsibility to monitor them the best they can. I feel comfortable doing that. Afterall, WWF is made to be sprayed directly into the environment and that is ok. But if you intend to retain it in a tube, it's thought of as dangerous because some day it could leak out.

 

[Garycw]

Great test! I appreciate you doing this and posting results. As for WWF and the environment... I think anyone with filled tires has a responsibility to monitor them the best they can. I feel comfortable doing that. Afterall, WWF made to be sprayed directly into the environment and that is ok. But if you intend to retain it in a tube, it's thought of as dangerous because some day it could leak out.

My thoughts exactly. If WWF is such a concern in tires, what about the potentially millions of gallons sprayed on the roadways every year. This all goes directly into the streams and water supply ???

 

[joea99]

My thoughts exactly. If WWF is such a concern in tires, what about the potentially millions of gallons sprayed on the roadways every year. This all goes directly into the streams and water supply ???

Darn. Thought I was gonna be first to note that. Rats.

 

[oldpilgrim]

CaCl is dumped all over our roads by the millions of tons by our highway departments every year but I hear of the environmental dangers from tire leaks constantly.

With my past history of tubes and cacl usage with no problems, I'll stick with it.

 

[AxleHub]

2 points:

1. Environmental issues is always a measurement of degree. I might use a half gallon of www flyid in my truck each year. But a leaking or loss of fluid in just one tractor tire could be an 80 year equivalent (40 gallons). I can control that lianility by choosing my fluid in the tractor. But diesel exhaust is something I can NOT control in my use as long as I use ultra low sulphur fuel and keep it tuned. Point is . . What we can control us our responsibility imo . . what we can't control is a different situation. And by the way . . Methanol is not only hard on the environment . . it can make you really sick too (like hospital sick). A friend working on a hydronic system had a minor spill at work and off to rhe hospital he went.

2. Appreciate fried's testing efforts. However on the cost comparisons I'd say there is some debatw to be had. Rimguard was 450 for 80 gallons ??? In our area I could getit for 2.50 a gallon to 3.69 is the mostvexpensuve chouce. So 80 gallons at 2.50 is 200.00 plus tax plus labor. My point is don't compare one product with labor versus another product without labor or one product on sale vs. Another product currently not on sale unless you've checked 4 or 5 rimguard locations for the best prices also and also include the fact if 30% weight improvenent as well. Just my opinion.

 

[Garycw]

Maybe I should plant beets and run through my Jack Lalane juicer

 

[Ford850]

AxleHub, All valid points, but it's hard to resist $0.79/gallon washer fluid. Shop SPLASH 1-Gallon Windshield Washer Fluid at Lowes.com

 

[AxleHub]

Maybe I should plant beets and run through my Jack Lalane juicer

Funny. lol.

It would give you inexpensive weight for your tractor AND reduce your own weight at the same time if you drink that healthy stuff

But then there would be a counterbalance too . . In Western WI the counties use it as a pre spray when icy conditons are expected . . . likely not at RimGuard pricing . . but better than corn or beans

 

[AxleHub]

AxleHub, All valid points, but it's hard to resist $0.79/gallon washer fluid.

Shop SPLASH 1-Gallon Windshield Washer Fluid at Lowes.com

I'd be very cautious of product at that price this time of year. Normally the "summer" www is selling out cheap now.

I'd buy a gallon and test it in a freezer with a reliable thermometer.

By the way . . Rubber gloves and protect eyes, noses, and mouth.

 

[varmint]

Not especially relevant, but I checked at the local Lowes (I need some WWF, anyway- World Wildlife Fund??) but it wasn't $0.79 but $1.97. Ouch.

Axlehub's comment about summer stuff makes sense- I'd be checking it before I bought 80 bottles, too.

 

[Ford850]

Yeah it would have to be -20 to be safe. The SKU and ad claim -20 though.

 

[fried1765]

AxleHub:
I am sure that you can buy RimGuard in Western Wiscosin for your $2.50 price.
Problem is; not everybody lives in Western Wisconsin.
I called two Rimguard dealers, and that is how I arrived at the $450+ price
$3.23 per gal. plus 6.25% sales tax, plus $75 per tire to install (dealer quoted numbers) plus my cost to drive 170 miles round trip - to the closer of the two dealers.
It would be 1400+ miles for me to drive to Western Wisconsin to buy RimGuard.
That is a bit too far for me!

 

[AxleHub]

AxleHub:
I am sure that you can buy RimGuard in Western Wiscosin for your $2.50 price.
Problem is; not everybody lives in Western Wisconsin.
I called two Rimguard dealers, and that is how I arrived at the $450+ price
$3.23 per gal. plus 6.25% sales tax, plus $75 per tire to install (dealer quoted numbers) plus my cost to drive 170 miles round trip - to the closer of the two dealers.
It would be 1400+ miles for me to drive to Western Wisconsin to buy RimGuard.
That is a bit too far for me!

Greetings fried,

My post was not about western wi pricing BUT it was an example that rimguard is not a set price and it needs some detail and determination to achieve apples and apples comparison.

1. I contacted a total of 5 rimguard providers. My 4th contact was the highest and my 5th contact was the cheapest. I got 4 of the 5 names/numbers directly from rimguard. Their website encourages you to email them for dealer locations and to answer your questions. I assume you contacted them early on and they gave you the two names you have. My point is more effort may reward you.

2. 2 of the 5 I contacted would sell me the rimguard directly so I could self install at my location (1 of the 2 was my 5th and cheapest contact). Again, buying www from lowes and hauling it home and self installing doesn't fairly compare to rimguard with dealer installation included. Your time and effort has a value and both products would require similar tools and efforts.

All I'm saying is, if rimguard only gave you 2 names to check . . You're being short changed in your efforts. And lets not forget that 30% more weight is like getting 30 % more product too for your calculations.

Your decision doesn't impact me at all and you are certainly welcome to doing whatever you desire . . . but public message boards like this one allow us all to be teachers and examples to those who don't post.

3. Just be aware that in self installing the www to save money . . that option will require a level of safety that rimguard will not require. You can get splashed with rimguard or bathe in it and you'll just get messy. But if the same thing would happen with the www, you could (I didn't say "would") end up going to walk-in at the local clinic/hospital as my friend did when they worked with a similar component found in www.

Lastly, I think it would be great for you to come to WI and see what our area has to offer . . but rimguard pricing probably isn't enough to justify it

 

[fried1765]

AxleHub:
I lived South of Minneapolis (Lakeville) from 1967 thru 1990, so am VERY familiar with your area (had friends in Eau Claire).
My daughter and her family live in Woodbury, Mn., but I get out there very seldom.
My life is split Spring thru Fall, between Cape Cod, and Nova Scotia (tractors live on Cape Cod), Winter in Florida.
At my age, it is the best that I can do.
Will pick up my completely repainted 1988 Ford 1920 FEL today. It looks like NEW!

 

[Ford850]

Another thing to note, regardless of the fluid you use, you should replace rubber stems with the metal variety. I've seen several posts on forums that rim guard dissolved the internal cement on valve stems after 5 years or so, causing messy leaks. The rim guard site warns against this too, and says it can happen with any type of fluid. They say it is due to lower quality tubes and valve stems these days. It would be worth the upgrade when you fill, rather than a repair later.