JD4300 with 430 ballasting question.

[Jesustx]

I have a JD4300 with a 430 front loader and I would like to know if I could substitute the fluid filled tires ballast with more weight one the 3p hitch. I am currently in the middle of fabricating a 3p hitch receiver to carry those ammo cans filled with lead.
As per the manual, it requires a 3p ballast of 600kg and fluid filled rear tires. It also has an option of 550kg 3p, fluid filled tires and weights on the rims.

Thanks in advance

 

[pmsmechanic]

I find most owners on TBN over ballast their tractors. I did it myself for a while and then got tired of not being able to use my fel properly. I now have a weight bracket that weighs about 600 lbs (previously 1000 lbs.) and that is lots. I only install it on the tractor when I anticipate lifting a heavier load. The rest of the time I have nothing for ballast and the fel and tractor operate so much nicer being lighter in weight.

 

[oosik]

I guess the correct answer - yes, you can add weight on the 3-point up to the amount its designed to carry.

I have 1550# of RimGuard in my rear tires and a 1000# rear blade on my Kubota M6040. For what I do with the tractor - this setup works great. I lift and move large rocks and chunks of pine tree trunk. I do drop the rear blade to use other 3-point implements. They are all in the 800# to 1000# category also.

My advantage - my 80 acres is very open. Even the pine stands are quite easy to navigate around and through.

 

[RjCorazza]

You can use 3 point ballast in place of fluid filled tires. I prefer both for loader work and general traction though. Filled rears help keep the tires planted, and 3 point ballast does the same, plus takes weight off the front axle (to some degree).

 

[zzvyb6]

A close friend has a 4400 with the 430 loader. She has loaded rears & still needs a lot of extra weight (as you state from specs). Currently uses a 6' rototiller PLUS 4 slabs of iron 1" thick x 20" x 20" on the tiller frame to hold the rear down. Largest load I've seen her raise is a JD 1520 carcass longitudinally (Engine, transmission, rear axle) with forks ! All I'm trying to say is that the machine can pick up quite a bit more than meets the eye. Front tires need a lot of extra air as well, if maxing out the loader is your goal.

 

[Jesustx]

I have the 41X14.00-20 tires and at 75% filled I need 64 gallons of calcium chloride (723lbs) for both tires as per the manual. How does that translate if I move it to the 3p hitch since it will be behind the rear tires.

 

[Jesustx]

I find most owners on TBN over ballast their tractors. I did it myself for a while and then got tired of not being able to use my fel properly. I now have a weight bracket that weighs about 600 lbs (previously 1000 lbs.) and that is lots. I only install it on the tractor when I anticipate lifting a heavier load. The rest of the time I have nothing for ballast and the fel and tractor operate so much nicer being lighter in weight.

I do expect to lift heavy loads. How does affect your FEL when you go up on weight? This is the reason i poured the lead into ammo cans so i can remove and add weight as needed.

 

[Jesustx]

I guess the correct answer - yes, you can add weight on the 3-point up to the amount its designed to carry.

I have 1550# of RimGuard in my rear tires and a 1000# rear blade on my Kubota M6040. For what I do with the tractor - this setup works great. I lift and move large rocks and chunks of pine tree trunk. I do drop the rear blade to use other 3-point implements. They are all in the 800# to 1000# category also.

My advantage - my 80 acres is very open. Even the pine stands are quite easy to navigate around and through.

I only have an acre of land, I live within the city limits and thats why i want to make my ballast as small as possible.

 

[WranglerX]

I run close to 600 pounds on my MF GC 1715 (SCUT)..... its just a steel box (2X2X1 FT) filled with concrete.... Wheels are so small ballasting them is pretty much useless for the weight..... And Yes at times my ballast box seems a little big, something I think it could be dropped in half and still be effective BUT I really don't fear ballast box causing me to tip over backwards....
Little green machine weights in at 520 pounds according to manufacture...

 

[zzvyb6]

Just a moment. That's all it is. The sum of the weight(s) behind the front axle times the distances those weights are behind the front axle needs to be larger than the weights ahead of the front axle times the distances those weights are ahead of the front axle. In a simplified case, the bucket or fork load has to be counter-balanced by tire and auxilliary weights. If the loader geometry times the lift cylinder's capacity exceeds the rear load, it will pitch forward. Also, same rear load further back from the 3pt hitch also is a mechanism to accomplish this balance. Don't forget to have some extra rear moment because having the tires firmly on the ground is necessary if you plant to do more than play teeter-totter with your rig.

 

[pmsmechanic]

I do expect to lift heavy loads. How does affect your FEL when you go up on weight? This is the reason i poured the lead into ammo cans so i can remove and add weight as needed.

If you were trying to level some dirt any little rock in the dirt would cause the bucket to roll over the rock instead of pushing it out of the way. There was so little weight on the front tires when the bucket was in float position that steering was really poor. In the end I decided that the right amount of weight on the 3ph was what it took to keep the back tires on the ground with the fel maxed out. I'm probably a little on the light side but I prefer that to having too much weight back there.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Also I really like your idea of ammo cans with lead in them. It's a really dense weight which will help you keep things compact. Guys on here talk about how they can use their tiller or a rear blade for a counter weight. Yes it works as I have done it but a nice compact setup with the weight as close to the tractor as possible makes it so much easier to maneuver in close quarters. I used to clean corrals with my tractor and fel. To have the ability to turn around in a tight spot without hitting the corral walls came in very handy many times.

 

[Jesustx]

If you were trying to level some dirt any little rock in the dirt would cause the bucket toroll over the rock instead of pushing it out of the way. There was so little weight on the front tires when the bucket was in float position that steering was really poor. In the end I decided that the right amount of weight on the 3ph was what it took to keep the back tires on the ground with the fel maxed out. I'm probably a little on the light side but I prefer that to having too much weight back there.

I do have a lot dirt to spread out. I am going max out the 3p ballast to dump the dirt with my fel then change the ballast for my box blade to spread the dirt with the fel and box blade.

Also I really like your idea of ammo cans with lead in them. It's a really dense weight which will help you keep things compact. Guys on here talk about how they can use their tiller or a rear blade for a counter weight. Yes it works as I have done it but a nice compact setup with the weight a close to the tractor as possible makes it so much easier to maneuver in close quarters. I used to clean corrals with my tractor and fel. To have the ability to turn around in a tight spot without hitting the corral walls came in very handy many times.

The three main reasons I did this is because my property is not that big, i can easily add/remove weight and i got the lead for less than 50 cents per pound. Once i am done fabricating my 3p ammo can carrier / hitch receiver I'll share the pictures.

 

[LD1]

How weight behind the axle relates to weight in the tires is directly related to how far back the weight is.

Not hard numbers.....but just the concept: 100 pounds hanging off the end of a boom pole may be equal to 200 lbs on the 3PH but in closer like a weight box. Which may also be equal to 300lbs of tire fluid.

Tire ballast is never a replacement for proper counterweight on the 3PH as it doesn't have a countering effect of taking weight off the front axle. And tire ballast alone is usually NEVER enough to match the strength of the loader.

The front axle is the weak link. adding ballast, but "not enough" to keep the rear of the tractor planted only adds to the weight on the front axle.

For a 3000lb tractor, I'd have no issues with 1000lbs or a little more on the 3PH.

But the issue with no tire fluid is lack of traction when using a 3PH implement. Like using a rear blade, or a disc.....drop the implement to dig in the dirt and now you effectively have no weight back there. And with a loader up front, the larger rear tires aren't doing much to aide in traction

 

[pmsmechanic]

The front axle is the weak link. adding ballast, but "not enough" to keep the rear of the tractor planted only adds to the weight on the front axle.

For a 3000lb tractor, I'd have no issues with 1000lbs or a little more on the 3PH.

But the issue with no tire fluid is lack of traction when using a 3PH implement. Like using a rear blade, or a disc.....drop the implement to dig in the dirt and now you effectively have no weight back there. And with a loader up front, the larger rear tires aren't doing much to aide in traction

I've heard that the front axle is the weak link many times on TBN. I'm not sure that's completely accurate. I've driven across the yard many times with a full fel without my rear weight. If I don't have the front wheels engaged the rear tires will stop and roll over a small rock and then the tractor will start moving again. I've muscled heavy stuff around with the rear weight installed that I can hardly lift with the fel. I'm not going to deliberately try to break the front axle but I haven't babied it either.

What your saying about tire fluid is accurate. My issue is this. I'm not comfortable with the idea of carrying all that extra weight around all the time just because I might need it once or twice a year. My work a rounds include adding more suitcase weights to the front. Let the front axle work harder. Drive faster as more speed = more traction or even lift the blade a little and do less work on each pass.

None of these are a perfect solution but in my mind it beats carrying all that fluid around that I don't need 99% of the time. Others will probably disagree but so far this works for me.