Lightening

/ Lightening #21  
Patrick,

We've had several experiences.

First was about 15 or 18 years ago. Lightning struck a power pole and blew off one of the primaries. End result was that one of the 110V phases coming into our house became (essentially) ground potential and the other one went to 220V. We slept through the storm, and first thing in the morning (on time) I heard the 220V pool motor kick on out in the back yard. I got up and padded out to the kitchen; turned on the kitchen light, and POP! it blew out. Hmmm, still no clue, then went into the family room (next to the kitchen) and flipped on the light. POP! another one bit the dust. Now I'm awake, and figuring something is fishy, but the pool motor is running (normally). Hmmm. Got out the trusty DVM and started checking outlets. First three I checked were dead. Hmmmm. Fourth one read 220V! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif. I moved as fast as I could to the main panel and shut everything off. Called PG&E ASAP. We were lucky, only lost a clock radio, phone answering machine, and a few lightbulbs. Everything else that was potential was either on the dead circuit or turned off. Other neighbors were not so lucky.

Since we've been living on top of the mountain, we've had lightning strikes 3 times. Lost at least one modem each time (our modems are all protected now). Blew a couple of phone lines. Last one took out the transformer that feeds our house (about 80-100 feet away). Blew it up like a roman candle. My wife was on the phone when it hit (cordless), but her ears were ringing for a couple of weeks. She said she hit the floor when it happened. She was really spooked.

The GlueGuy
 
/ Lightening #22  
Re: Lightning

patrickg
There's one common flaw to all your theories checking status of ground wire.You didn't make a tractor project out of it/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
regards
Mutt
 
/ Lightening
  • Thread Starter
#23  
Paul B., The ADT service guy came out and confirmed that in fact their panel was "now" defective and should be replaced. DU_UH when I called the problem in I told them that their panel was malfunctioned and was messing up my phone line so a couple days later a tech comes out and agrees with me, great service. He didn't have the part required (the one that always goes out in these residential panels when hit by a lightening surge). Now they want to come out next Thursday to fix it because it would be inconvenient to come out sooner. And ADT is supposed to be the top company. I wonder if number 2 (like Avis) tries harder. As my posts are via the phone line in question, it seems fine when the alarm panel is disconnected.

Patrick
 
/ Lightening #24  
Patrickg

My habit is to unplug everything electronic and critical when a thunder storm blows up (Michigan is #2 in lightening deaths). About 4 years ago, I woke up in the middle of the night hearing rumbling. I unplugged everything, went to the bathroom and back to bed. My head hadn't hit the pillow 30 seconds and lightening hit the TV antenna. /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

Blew about a foot off the antenna, took out a ceiling fan, the phone, antenna rotor, thermostats on the water heater and believe it or not, a little bitty fuse in the TV. Stuff like the antenna rotor and ceiling fan rattled when you shook them. The other stuff you couldn't even tell it had been hit. Left a nice black spot where the rotor control had been sitting. Left us deaf for a minute or two also.

I'm just glad I got out of the batroom when I did. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Don't think I would have wanted to explain THAT one to the EMT's. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

SHF
 
/ Lightening
  • Thread Starter
#25  
GlueGuy, I guess I'll have to order a supply of surge arrestors to mount at all the panels (well house, shop, mom's house inside and out- 2 panels). The good news is they really do help. The bad news is they can be destroyed by exceeding their limit and have to be replaced. Not terribly expensive but could get that way if replaced frequently enough. PG&E (Pacific Graft and Extortion?)

Patrick
 
/ Lightening
  • Thread Starter
#26  
Re: Lightning

Mutt, Didn't I mention that the well house is over 50 ft from the shop and qualifies as a legitimate "TRACTOR" destination, what with the tall grass and all. If I have to pull the well, again, maybe I could use a snatch block to an overhead beam and use the tractor to pull the rope carrying the weight of the pump and pipe ratheer than the 12000lb winch on the front of my Ram3500.

Patrick
 
/ Lightening #27  
A VERY old hickory tree in our meadow. Beautiful and healthy. One weekend mowing the meadow I noticed all the grass in a 2' radius around the trunk (about 20" diameter) was brown/dead. The next spring, no leaves, tree was dead. The bark on the side of the tree was split from top to bottom. You could see clear as day where the power went.

Steve
 
/ Lightening
  • Thread Starter
#28  
SHF, Yeah, that could have been an electrifrightening experience. I think I just had an idea while reading your post that might help me with my new house electrical design. I will need to put ALL the sensitive loads on a separate breaker box beside the "regular box". Up stream of the sensitive box I will need switches to open the line coming from the meter and short the input to the sensitive breaker box to ground. Maybe I could automate that a bit.

Yet another design project.

Patrick
 
/ Lightening
  • Thread Starter
#29  
Steve, I have had two trees hit within a hundred yds of my shop this summer. One had a limb blown off and I suppose I'll know next spring what the damage is for sure. The other is showing some dead leaves but I haven't conducted a forensic exam on it to see how bad things are. I suppose I'll know for sure next spring when I see what buds out. The overwhelming majority of my pecan trees lost at least one big limb each to ice storms last winter. I know that this must be a much worse that normal series of problems with/for trees as if this was normal I wouldn't have nearly so many trees left alive. Between ice storms, lightening, and beaver there is hardly going to be anything left to be destroyed by tornados. Hopefully that will not leave the tornados with nothing to eat but my buildings. Maybe I should buy an old house trailer to put over in the corner of the property to attract the tornados away from the good stuff.

Patrick
 
/ Lightening
  • Thread Starter
#31  
Re: Lightning

Richard (AKA Cowboydoc), What an event! Probably not so rare as we might think. My mom's uncle always took his lunch to the field in a metal bucket (pail with bail). A storm came up and he unhitched the plow horse to ride it to the barn to make good time and not get caught out in the storm. It started hailing really large hailstones and he credits the pail which he wore on his head as a helmet with saving his life. He was leaning forward trying to shield the horse as best he could and still ride. He and the horse got quite bruised but except for the mostly temporary hearing damage from hail pounding on the pail like a drum neither he nor the horse suffered damage to the head. I hadn't thought of it this way before but he was probably extremely lucky not to have been hit by lightening as it frequently accompanies hailstorms and the land he was working would have had him atop a horse as the tallest conductor around.

Still, your story could be sold to Ripley's believe it or not!

Patrick
 
/ Lightening #32  
Re: Lightning

Patrick, I've never took a leak on a hot wire myself. But I was with a guy fishing in a stock tank one time and he did. It used a battery for power. In those days their were 6, 8, and 12 volt around, I don't know which it was. You should have seen him jump./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I thought I was going to die laughing. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
Enough of that. What about ball lightning, or rolling lighting? Anybody ever see that?

Ernie
 
/ Lightening #33  
Re: Lightning

Knew a guy who had taken a leak on a transformer for a bet. To this day he has minimal kidney function and severe nerve damage in his legs and lower back. He also has very poor bladder and bowel control - slightest change in weather and he's in big trouble. The evils of alcohol and youth!
 
/ Lightening #35  
Patrickg

They make whole house surge arrestors. These are available from our local power company. They charge about $5.00 a month and also provide a number of stand alone suppressors for the outlets. The whole house job attaches at your power meter. My problem with this is that I HAD a surge arrestor attached to the rotor control on my antenna. Absolutely fried it, (at least that's what I assume the white casing turned to a black casing means). /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I don't think they were meant to handle power surges flowing backward through them. I kind of like the switch idea, but remember, lightening can jump! Call me old fashioned, but I think I'll just keep unpluggin.

SHF
 
/ Lightening
  • Thread Starter
#36  
SHF, Any suficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic...

Yes, high voltage/lightning can "jump". You need multiple switches because high voltage can jump. A minimum is one to open the path between power and load and another switch to short the load side to ground so that if the open switch is "jumped over" a good path to ground is offered to the invading voltage. Lightening, not having read the appropriate engineering texts, might not understand all this and eat your delicate electronics anyway. Oh, by the way, regular run of the mill switches aren't going to do it. You need late night B&W scifi switches like the mad scientist used to activate the monster. Big UGLY knife switches with W I D E spacings are a good start.

Local power companies that still offer incentives to consume more power and do not offer any programs to encourage energy star appliances etc are not the type to offer surge protection (guess what kind of utility I have). I can buy surge protectors at the eletrical supply house, essentially MOV (Metal Oxide Varistor) technology. They deteriorate over time as they accumulate "hits" and can be fried in one big hit but they are about the only technology close to my pocketbook that I know about and trust (sort of).

And in closing, a couple further thoughts... U N P L U G G I N G is good, very good but since lightning can be sneaky and you can't use your stuff with it unplugged we should all have as a minimum, breaker panel mounted MOV surge protection and remember folks turning something off will not protect from lightning of even moderate energy, it must be physically unplugged cause as SHF said, lightning jumps.

Patrick
 
/ Lightening #38  
Re: Lightning

Wow is an understatement. Flying through it?/w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif I'd hate to be on the ground anywhere near it. Great Pictures/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Ernie
 
/ Lightening #39  
Patrick,

On our place I have panel mounted whole house surge supressors on both main panels (2 utility feeds) and every phone line (6 of those). I used Intermatic units for the panels (they have indicators to show when they blow) and 2 APC 4 line units for the phone lines. The phone system for the office has its own UPS as do the server and the fax and most of the computers. (Our offices are in a section of the house). The thing with protecting against lightening is you have to cover every path you can. 'Course I am still working on fixinf the barn which has NO lightening rods - it's on the list.

Andy in NH
 
/ Lightening #40  
Patrickg

I think the meter base mounted units are also available to the public. I did a search a few months ago and I seem to recall finding info about them. Of course, after you get one, you need the power company to install it, otherwise you break the little plastic seal on the meter. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

SHF
 

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