Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[JWR]

I want to ad a hydraulic top link to my tractor, as well. I have a double acting cylinder with check valves but, the rear hydraulics on my M-F are limited. I don't know what I need to accomplish the hydraulic top link. Any one out there have any thoughts?

Def38 -- I don't claim to have the whole story for you but here are a few relevant comments:
-- An hydraulic top link needs to be stout enough to stand constant stress and forces you put on it when in place. That sounds obvious but I'm saying it really takes a beating with a 1500lb object on the 3pt and hitting all sorts of stuff up/down. You'll have to figure whether the cylinder you have is up to the task.
-- Length between connection eyes fully extended and fully retracted has to match your tractor well enough to operate/be useful. Take measurements on your fixed/manually adjustable top link and that gives you the ballpark. You might need to fabricate an extension but I'd get leery of doing that. Commercial hydraulic top links that work well right out of the box are on the order of $500 or $600.
-- You'll need hose and connectors to run from your Remote on the tractor to the cylinder. Kind of can't go wrong since one polarity of hookup will cause your valve control lever to lift one way and lower the other way. Worst it can be is the reverse of how you want/prefer it and might have to reverse your connections.
-- Of course the psi specs on your cylinder need to handle the output of your tractor hydraulics, etc.
-- With a double acting cylinder you have a very useful aspect of the 3pt lift not normally there with a fixed top link. Normally you have no ability in your 3pt to "force downward." Just gravity for downward. But with the hyd top link you CAN force things downward at times/when desired.

What did you mean your rear hydraulics on the tractor are rather limited? Either you have a spare remote back there for such use or you don't. (??)

 

[TheFarmerInAdell]

I want to ad a hydraulic top link to my tractor, as well. I have a double acting cylinder with check valves but, the rear hydraulics on my M-F are limited. I don't know what I need to accomplish the hydraulic top link. Any one out there have any thoughts?

I skipped the check valves on my hyd top link because I have a float function. I rarely see a problem with not having the check valves. If I have the mower lifted and drive (bounce) around for a while it might drift down causing some slop in the cylinder. I just cycle the cylinder full stroke both ways and it clears it out. You will need a cylinder that has swivel eyes that are the correct size for the implements or can use bushings to get to the correct size. I just bought a swivel eye cylinder that matched the length of the standard top link and had Cat II sized eyes (tractor has Cat II links already). This is what I ordered:
2.5" Bore X 8" Stroke Welded Swivel Eye Hydraulic Cylinder, 35 PSI

I picked the implement that I use the most (flail mower) and set it where I would use it the most with the standard top link. I then found this cylinder that the measurement of the top link fell into the center of the extended and retracted lengths with sufficient travel. 8" of travel doesn't sound like a lot, but so far it covers everything I need. With a 231S you will likely go with a longer stroke, but do the measurements and then look around. It's far easier to just get a cylinder that fits the bill than to have an extension made. Also keep in mind clearance where the link mounts. You need to make sure the cylinder will clear the mount on the tractor in all positions.

I then figured out what fittings and hoses I needed and went to the Parker store to get the hoses made and pick up the fittings. Nice thing about going to the Parker store is you can have different fittings on either end and they make the hoses for you in about 5-10 minutes while you grab the other fittings you need. Make sure you have enough hose. I made mine a little too short so there is tension on them. I'll get replacements one of these days.

As far as cylinder size, a 2-1/2" bore, even at the limited 2600 psi of my tractor, will handle over 10,000 lbs of force. At the 3500 psi the cylinder is rated at its almost 14,000 lbs of force.

 

[TheFarmerInAdell]

I am running out of room to add a 3rd remote but that is on the table.

However, I do need to tweak the height just a bit. With the roller lowered it is cutting a bit to high. If I shorten the top link, the skids dig in on turns. I am thinking I go back to the top holes and take top link as far as I can to get a higher cut than my first test. I lowered the roller because I adjusted the top link quite a bit but still thought it was to low of cut.

Seems to me that they should have a hole in between the two they have. :confused3:

Well, I would create that hole that is missing. Then again, I have the ability to do that. Can you take a picture of the roller mount?

Alamo has 1/2" adjustments with two sets of holes on the roller bracket and several holes on the mower body. Every half inch one of the roller hole sets will line up with a hole set in the body.

 

[Hilbilly]

I posted some of this in another thread but didn't want to hijack it, so I came back to this thread.

Last year I was having issues with my Caroni TM1900 flail mower and tried a few things suggested in this thread before winter came and the flail got put away for the year. I'm back at it now and I'm still having serious heating issues.

Last year I replaced the belts and no change. Today I decided to try and trouble shoot. I greased all the fittings before starting and ran the mower for exactly one minute (no load). Took the belt cover off and found the idler was too hot to keep my hand on. So I removed the idler tensioner and checked the idler for signs of a worn bearing but couldn't find anything. It turned very smoothly with no signs of a worn bearing. I put it back together and used my Gates belt tensioner to check the belt tension. There are no specs that I could find in the owners manual or on the Caroni website, so I went by the Gates website, which recommended 150 lbs for a single belt (divide by 3 for 3 belts - so 50 lbs each). I set the tension and ran it again for exactly one minute and got the same results.

The inside of the belts are not hot.
The pulleys are not hot.
The pulley bearings are not hot and turn smoothly.
The back side of the belts are hot and the face of the idler is hot. This must be the source of the heat on my mower but can't determine what the cause is.

I went back out later and I ran the mower for 3 minutes at 540 rpm (no load) and got the following temps with an IR thermometer:
1) the back of the belts 165*
2) face of idler 131* but this is a shiny surface and I'm told the IR therms don't work on a shiny surface
3) inside center of idler 169*

I then used the mower in ambient temps of 65* for about 45 minutes and it was raining. By the time I got back to the shop, grabbed some tools, the IR therm and got the cover plate off the belts, the back of the belts were 267* and the inside center of the idler was 269*. The outboard end of the cross tube was 141*. They cool down quickly, so I imagine the temps were even higher while operating the mower.

The source of the heat is obvioulsy the idler but the bearings feel fine. So either the bearings are not OK or there is friction between the belts and the idler, meaning they are slipping. But I can't see that being the case either.

I'm at a loss here.

 

[John0829]

Well, I would create that hole that is missing. Then again, I have the ability to do that. Can you take a picture of the roller mount?

Alamo has 1/2" adjustments with two sets of holes on the roller bracket and several holes on the mower body. Every half inch one of the roller hole sets will line up with a hole set in the body.

I just picked up a Alamo/Mott 6', fine cut, that has only one row of holes (4) for the roller bracket, I assume it is an older model.

 

[K5lwq]

Well, I would create that hole that is missing. Then again, I have the ability to do that. Can you take a picture of the roller mount?

Alamo has 1/2" adjustments with two sets of holes on the roller bracket and several holes on the mower body. Every half inch one of the roller hole sets will line up with a hole set in the body.

In this case the roller mount is the skid plate. I can't adjust just the roller although that would be nice and certainly available on most flails I researched. I have thought about adding middle holes but unless I shift everything back a bit, I am afraid there is not enough meat left to keep things secure.

I still need to play more with it this weekend but it could be that a longer top link is in order. Thanks for helping!

 

[TheFarmerInAdell]

In this case the roller mount is the skid plate. I can't adjust just the roller although that would be nice and certainly available on most flails I researched. I have thought about adding middle holes but unless I shift everything back a bit, I am afraid there is not enough meat left to keep things secure.

I still need to play more with it this weekend but it could be that a longer top link is in order. Thanks for helping!

View attachment 659947

That is kind of an odd set up. You could add another hole to both the body and the skid. The hole in the body would be the same level, just offset to the front or rear, the other in between the two holes but offset front/rear the same amount.

I would suggest the longer top link. It would be the quickest and easiest.

 

[TheFarmerInAdell]

I posted some of this in another thread but didn't want to hijack it, so I came back to this thread.

Last year I was having issues with my Caroni TM1900 flail mower and tried a few things suggested in this thread before winter came and the flail got put away for the year. I'm back at it now and I'm still having serious heating issues.

Last year I replaced the belts and no change. Today I decided to try and trouble shoot. I greased all the fittings before starting and ran the mower for exactly one minute (no load). Took the belt cover off and found the idler was too hot to keep my hand on. So I removed the idler tensioner and checked the idler for signs of a worn bearing but couldn't find anything. It turned very smoothly with no signs of a worn bearing. I put it back together and used my Gates belt tensioner to check the belt tension. There are no specs that I could find in the owners manual or on the Caroni website, so I went by the Gates website, which recommended 150 lbs for a single belt (divide by 3 for 3 belts - so 50 lbs each). I set the tension and ran it again for exactly one minute and got the same results.

The inside of the belts are not hot.
The pulleys are not hot.
The pulley bearings are not hot and turn smoothly.
The back side of the belts are hot and the face of the idler is hot. This must be the source of the heat on my mower but can't determine what the cause is.

I went back out later and I ran the mower for 3 minutes at 540 rpm (no load) and got the following temps with an IR thermometer:
1) the back of the belts 165*
2) face of idler 131* but this is a shiny surface and I'm told the IR therms don't work on a shiny surface
3) inside center of idler 169*

I then used the mower in ambient temps of 65* for about 45 minutes and it was raining. By the time I got back to the shop, grabbed some tools, the IR therm and got the cover plate off the belts, the back of the belts were 267* and the inside center of the idler was 269*. The outboard end of the cross tube was 141*. They cool down quickly, so I imagine the temps were even higher while operating the mower.

The source of the heat is obvioulsy the idler but the bearings feel fine. So either the bearings are not OK or there is friction between the belts and the idler, meaning they are slipping. But I can't see that being the case either.

I'm at a loss here.

Check the alignment of the idler pulley. if it is crooked that will cause your issue. Instead of just rolling across the pulley it is swiping as it goes across.

 

[ericm979]

I was going to suggest checking the alignment of the idle pulley too.

K5lwq, is there enough slop in the fit so you can put it in the lower set of holes up front and the upper in the back? That would move the roller lower.

 

[Hilbilly]

Check the alignment of the idler pulley. if it is crooked that will cause your issue. Instead of just rolling across the pulley it is swiping as it goes across.

Thanks for the suggestion. I never thought about that being a possible cause but it makes sense. I'll check it this morning.