Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[Kscessnadriver]

I’m new to owning a flail mower, so here I am. I picked up a Titan Implements FMWR175 (68 inch) flail a few months ago, and finally started using it recently. I’m mowing roughly 6 acres of pasture land that’s currently not being grazed, so things grow fast. I’m trying to run it on a Ferguson TO30 (poor choice I now realize). It cuts great on well manicured grass, but anything taller than about 5 inches I’m unable to mow the entire width of the mower. Am I wrong, or so I simply just not have the power to run the mower? Thanks

 

[AGTtactical]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I think Titan is the worst of the various flail mowers. The roller is only 4" in diameter, and often scalps in soft soil (most others are 25% larger). Various guys have written about the silly placement of grease zerks on the Titan, and the some have said that the zerks aren't standard. Various guys have complained about the Titan models on this forum. Most seem to love all the others. That aside, its probably a power issue. I grew up running a Fergusson, and it did all we asked of it, but its too weak for this mower. Only 29.3 engine hp, and 28 PTO hp. While Titan does claim a minimum hp of 30, the recommended hp is 40-60 HP (tractor), so you can bet your tractor is too small.

 

[DogT]

After seeing the talk about these flail mowers, I've been thinking about one. I always thought these things cost $10 grand and up. I could do with one for a lot less than that if they work. Currently I'm using a JD2020, 54 pto HP, with a 7' NH 451 sickle bar. I don't have a rake or baler. Which means that to cut the fields 3 times a year, I have to wait for mostly very dry conditions, there's always a lot of chaff in the fields. I currently cut about 20 acres on not very flat ground (foothills of the Blue Ridge) and a fair amount of trees, outcrop rocks, etc. which takes me about 4-5 hours per 10 acre field on 2 sides of a stream. There are no level spots, everything is on the side of a hill from the stream up. I was wondering if I should pick up a 68' or so and see how it works. $2000 is not that much and if it needs a few mods, I can deal with that, I can't deal with $10K.

This year is especially horrendous with all the rain we've had, it's hard to mow between storms and the grass is tall and the weeds have come up under the grass. But I've got the mower moving through the stuff even if it's wet. Only thing is once in a while it bogs down in the cutters and I have to back up to clear it.

I'd still use the NH to get on the banks and under the tree lines. Are these things really worth the money? I've read that back roller is too small, but the soil here is generally pretty hard unless I get in a swampy/spring area which is impossible to get into this year anyhow.

 

[leonz]

After seeing the talk about these flail mowers, I've been thinking about one. I always thought these things cost $10 grand and up. I could do with one for a lot less than that if they work. Currently I'm using a JD2020, 54 pto HP, with a 7' NH 451 sickle bar. I don't have a rake or baler. Which means that to cut the fields 3 times a year, I have to wait for mostly very dry conditions, there's always a lot of chaff in the fields. I currently cut about 20 acres on not very flat ground (foothills of the Blue Ridge) and a fair amount of trees, outcrop rocks, etc. which takes me about 4-5 hours per 10 acre field on 2 sides of a stream. There are no level spots, everything is on the side of a hill from the stream up. I was wondering if I should pick up a 68' or so and see how it works. $2000 is not that much and if it needs a few mods, I can deal with that, I can't deal with $10K.

This year is especially horrendous with all the rain we've had, it's hard to mow between storms and the grass is tall and the weeds have come up under the grass. But I've got the mower moving through the stuff even if it's wet. Only thing is once in a while it bogs down in the cutters and I have to back up to clear it.

I'd still use the NH to get on the banks and under the tree lines. Are these things really worth the money? I've read that back roller is too small, but the soil here is generally pretty hard unless I get in a swampy/spring area which is impossible to get into this year anyhow.

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If your willing to invest in a used JD25A or JD290 flail mower you will not go wrong.

They come up on tractorhouse, auction time, iron planet and other rags and you can buy municipal flail mowers
at auction as they are not that badly used and you can buy parts for all of them.

Other than purchasing a 4 foot cut caroni as new iron and waiting until it comes in you do not have many options.

Do not let anyone at agrisupply tell you they cannot get a 4 foot cut flail mower from the Caroni Family and if they do I will call
Rodney Barbour myself and mention it to him as they bring in container loads of Caroni AG products several times per year.

 

[AGTtactical]

I'm leaning toward a Woodmax FM-78H. It has the hydraulic option, so you can move it out under bushes so you don't have to get the right side of your tractor into the brush. It's less than half the price of the Landpride I was looking at, which has no hydraulic option, and only a 1 year warranty. Woodmax has a 2 year warranty. Woodmax blades can be swapped between duckbill and Y blades...LP says "we don't recommend doing so." The Landpride is far heavier, and has an 80 hp gearbox, so it probably is more durable, but for the price of a Landpride, I could buy two Woodmax mowers. I've been on the phone with both companies...both have great tech support. Caroni mowers seem to have a good reputation, but its been very hard to get any info out of them.

 

[Kscessnadriver]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I think Titan is the worst of the various flail mowers. The roller is only 4" in diameter, and often scalps in soft soil (most others are 25% larger). Various guys have written about the silly placement of grease zerks on the Titan, and the some have said that the zerks aren't standard. Various guys have complained about the Titan models on this forum. Most seem to love all the others. That aside, its probably a power issue. I grew up running a Fergusson, and it did all we asked of it, but its too weak for this mower. Only 29.3 engine hp, and 28 PTO hp. While Titan does claim a minimum hp of 30, the recommended hp is 40-60 HP (tractor), so you can bet your tractor is too small.

I fully understood what I was getting when I purchased the Titan flail. For my use, and how often I was going to use it, it simply didn’t make sense to go spend 5x the money on a comparable flail. While a few of the grease fittings don’t make sense (the roller specifically), I think some guys may not realize it’s all in metric. That said,. I am happy with the cut I’m getting at this point, when I can run it in short grass. I guess I’ll shop around for something on the higher end of 40-60 HP. Thanks for the confirmation in what I suspected.

 

[leonz]

Everything you need to know about the caroni products is available on the Caroni Families company web page and they respond to e-mails. They have been making and exporting farm machinery for over fifty years.
The entered the US market less than 20 years ago through Agrisupply and a few others on the west coast.

caroni spa – TECNOLOGIA & NATURA

 

[AGTtactical]

Everything you need to know about the caroni products is available on the Caroni Families company web page and they respond to e-mails. They have been making and exporting farm machinery for over fifty years.The entered the US market less than 20 years ago through Agrisupply and a few others on the west coast.
caroni spa – TECNOLOGIA & NATURA

Not really. Even when you select the English version, much of the info is in Italian...see this: Flail Mowers TL and TM Series – caroni spa. Landpride and Woodmax provide much more detailed and clearer info on their sites, and they have a number you can actually call from the actual company, not some third party selling it. If you know, what's the number you call for Caroni tech support? (not Agrisupply). Where is the link on the Caroni website for the diameter of the rollers? What is the blade tip speed of a 1900? What is the gear box HP rating? I really want to compare Caroni to the others, but the information is so limited, or at least more difficult to find.

 

[leonz]

IF you like I can send you the PDF copy of this information that is in 4 languages.
It is also available for down load at no cost to you.

Most of the gearboxes used on Italian machinery and many others are made by Comer.

The rotor diameter I am not positive about but I believe it is the same diameter as the flail mower rotor but that is easy enough to check with the folks at agrisupply as you can ask for Mr. Barbour.

The flail mowers they make are also based on the roto tiller design frame where they use and share many of the same components-gearbox/cross shafts/bearings/seals etc.

The Caroni Company telephone numbers are

Telephone: 39 017 140 1346 ext. 7

Facsimile(FAX): 39 017 140 3750

The number 39 is the country code for Italy which needs to be dialed first and you can direct dial both their telephone and facsimile(fax) numbers. They will respond personally to e-mails and by mail as well.

Take a lot of time to see how these machines are built and look at how the bearings are installed and how the inner bearing housing is attached to the side weldments and the location of the seals before you make any decision.

I hope this helps you in your decision.

 

[AGTtactical]

Thanks Leonz.

 

[TheFarmerInAdell]

I’m new to owning a flail mower, so here I am. I picked up a Titan Implements FMWR175 (68 inch) flail a few months ago, and finally started using it recently. I’m mowing roughly 6 acres of pasture land that’s currently not being grazed, so things grow fast. I’m trying to run it on a Ferguson TO30 (poor choice I now realize). It cuts great on well manicured grass, but anything taller than about 5 inches I’m unable to mow the entire width of the mower. Am I wrong, or so I simply just not have the power to run the mower? Thanks

Have you tried going slower through the taller stuff? I've run a 62" flail mower on a 18 PTO HP tractor with decent results. But I did go slow. Also make sure the blades are sharp. That usually makes a big difference when cutting thicker stuff.

 

[def38]

I fully understood what I was getting when I purchased the Titan flail. For my use, and how often I was going to use it, it simply didn稚 make sense to go spend 5x the money on a comparable flail. While a few of the grease fittings don稚 make sense (the roller specifically), I think some guys may not realize it痴 all in metric. That said,. I am happy with the cut I知 getting at this point, when I can run it in short grass. I guess I値l shop around for something on the higher end of 40-60 HP. Thanks for the confirmation in what I suspected.

My 60" titan is working fine and has no issues other than the orientation of the rear roller Zerk fittings. Upon uncrating my new flail, I removed the roller bearing plates and oriented the Zerk fittings so as to preclude damage when mowing. If you wanted an alternative, merely drill and tap the bearing plates in the bearing center and locate the Zerks outboard of the plates altogether. Either remedy will leave the Zerk fittings in a safe location and easy to grease with a grease gun. My only issue with the roller design is that grass gets wrapped around the ends when mowing tall damp grass. This grass is easily cleared away once the grass dries.

 

[def38]

I have cast steel hammer flails on my titan mower. What's the wisdom regarding sharpening this style flail?

 

[Fallon]

I’m new to owning a flail mower, so here I am. I picked up a Titan Implements FMWR175 (68 inch) flail a few months ago, and finally started using it recently. I’m mowing roughly 6 acres of pasture land that’s currently not being grazed, so things grow fast. I’m trying to run it on a Ferguson TO30 (poor choice I now realize). It cuts great on well manicured grass, but anything taller than about 5 inches I’m unable to mow the entire width of the mower. Am I wrong, or so I simply just not have the power to run the mower? Thanks

That doesnt tell us how much power you have unless we go look up that model #.

Personally I ran a 7' (84") old Ford 917 behind my 32hp (25hp PTO) Kubota L3200. I had to go a little slower, especially in dense grass, but it wasnt to bad. I generally was taking close to full width passes. Not the same mower, but a Titan shouldn't be that different for power requirements unless something is really messed up.

Flails do mulch & recut better than a rotary. That extra cutting action does drive up the HP requirements a bit, but nowhere near double or anything. Wild guess 15-25% maybe. And in most circumstances you can just go a little slower or overlap a bit more to compensate.

 

[leonz]

I have cast steel hammer flails on my titan mower. What's the wisdom regarding sharpening this style flail?

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If you want to keep a sharp edge on the cast hammer knives you should use a low speed wet well grinder.

The most economical one that I know of is from Micromark and I believe its still on sale.
I have linked to it in past postings here on the forum.

You need to purchase an angle setter for the wet well grinder to maintain the correct cutting edge grinder, they are available from woodcraft and others for $25.00 plus sales tax and freight.

You need a wet slow speed grind to maintain the edge on your hammer knives.

 

[Kscessnadriver]

Have you tried going slower through the taller stuff? I've run a 62" flail mower on a 18 PTO HP tractor with decent results. But I did go slow. Also make sure the blades are sharp. That usually makes a big difference when cutting thicker stuff.

I'm running in first gear, can't go any slower without backing down off PTO speed. If I had a lower gear, I suspect I would be ok, but that's going to cost more to do than looking for a different tract.

That doesnt tell us how much power you have unless we go look up that model #.

Personally I ran a 7' (84") old Ford 917 behind my 32hp (25hp PTO) Kubota L3200. I had to go a little slower, especially in dense grass, but it wasnt to bad. I generally was taking close to full width passes. Not the same mower, but a Titan shouldn't be that different for power requirements unless something is really messed up.

Flails do mulch & recut better than a rotary. That extra cutting action does drive up the HP requirements a bit, but nowhere near double or anything. Wild guess 15-25% maybe. And in most circumstances you can just go a little slower or overlap a bit more to compensate.

TO-30 is 31 engine HP, 28 PTO HP claimed. Of course, that's brand new, not pushing 70 years old like it is now. I am overlapping quite a bit just to keep it running, sometimes taking as little as a 30-40% cut. I suspect not only am I on the low end of the HP curve for this mower, but my tractor isn't putting out full horsepower, just simply do to age.

 

[Kscessnadriver]

My 60" titan is working fine and has no issues other than the orientation of the rear roller Zerk fittings. Upon uncrating my new flail, I removed the roller bearing plates and oriented the Zerk fittings so as to preclude damage when mowing. If you wanted an alternative, merely drill and tap the bearing plates in the bearing center and locate the Zerks outboard of the plates altogether. Either remedy will leave the Zerk fittings in a safe location and easy to grease with a grease gun. My only issue with the roller design is that grass gets wrapped around the ends when mowing tall damp grass. This grass is easily cleared away once the grass dries.

I did the same, after reading on here about the complaints. Its not a big deal, just makes you wonder why they didn't do it that way when made. I concur on the damp grass statement as well. Otherwise I find it to cut quite well.

 

[TheFarmerInAdell]

I'm running in first gear, can't go any slower without backing down off PTO speed. If I had a lower gear, I suspect I would be ok, but that's going to cost more to do than looking for a different tract.



TO-30 is 31 engine HP, 28 PTO HP claimed. Of course, that's brand new, not pushing 70 years old like it is now. I am overlapping quite a bit just to keep it running, sometimes taking as little as a 30-40% cut. I suspect not only am I on the low end of the HP curve for this mower, but my tractor isn't putting out full horsepower, just simply do to age.

I suspect that the age of the tractor is only part of the equation. Have you had it serviced lately? I could be the timing is a little off or the carb needs adjustment. If all of that is good, then the age is the factor, but check that stuff first. If you're in first gear, you have the right idea, can't get any slower than that.

I would think you don't need to look at 60HP tractors for a replacement. 35-45HP would be a good range if the Ferguson met your needs before. I believe the flail manufacturers rate their equipment higher than necessary so you're not disappointed when you use it on a tractor that's at the low end of the HP range. Like I said, I used a 62" on a 24 HP tractor (18 PTO HP) with decent results going slow. I wouldn't try to mow at the same speed I do now with my 45HP tractor because the tractor just couldn't handle that speed. If you are conscious of what you are doing, at 35-45HP tractor should meet the needs just fine. Plus, that seems to be the sweet spot for HP range in most manufacturers where you the most HP for the money. But that's a whole different topic.

Back to flails; It sounds like you're happy with the one you purchased, you're just unhappy with the power source for it.

 

[CADplans]

Anything more than some casual weeds, this 90" mower slows this 41HP tractor to a crawl,,,

I think the reason this tractor can not pull the flail better is that it is a very small displacement engine.
The engine is only 1.5 liters,, I think they get the HP way up with the turbo.

Once the engine RPM's start to fall,, the torque goes away quickly,,,

This tractor is 3.4 liters, no turbo, 60HP,, it can thrash the daylights out of the same flail,,,

The red tractor never looses RPM,,,:thumbsup:

 

[TheFarmerInAdell]

Anything more than some casual weeds, this 90" mower slows this 41HP tractor to a crawl,,,

I think the reason this tractor can not pull the flail better is that it is a very small displacement engine.
The engine is only 1.5 liters,, I think they get the HP way up with the turbo.

Once the engine RPM's start to fall,, the torque goes away quickly,,,

This tractor is 3.4 liters, no turbo, 60HP,, it can thrash the daylights out of the same flail,,,

The red tractor never looses RPM,,,:thumbsup:

There's no replacement for displacement. (or we could blame the greene paint... :confused2: )

You're also looking at a 50% power increase. (and, of course, red paint... :dance1: )

90" is also a lot of flail. Even with now having 45HP I doubt I would go over 6 foot wide mower. If I had a lot of land to clear, I could go 7 foot and just keep on top of it. But, I like seat time (and don't have permission to buy another mower...), so 5 foot it is!