Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[toolslinger]

Well... It's hay field that my family decided was a lawn... There's also a lawn component, but not like a nice suburban lawn... Probably 10 or 12 acres of former fields, and 2 or 3 of lawn. The old fields have been cut for the last decade or so with a 4' finish mower behind an 8N. The lawn area with a 42" Walker MC zero turn.
I can't complain too much about the fields, they used to get done once or twice a year, when I was a kid, and the allergens were a nightmare... So much better out there keeping it short.
I'm hoping to knock out most everything with the flail, and just trim with the Walker. Fields will get cut every couple weeks to perhaps a month.
I had to push the field edges back as they were growing in with bramble (not because I want more grass) so there's some heavy briar stalks to deal with. Plan is to just go slow there, and chop it up until the grass takes over again.

Currently has the long y blades that pin directly to the rotor.

 

[K5lwq]

Well... It's hay field that my family decided was a lawn... There's also a lawn component, but not like a nice suburban lawn... Probably 10 or 12 acres of former fields, and 2 or 3 of lawn. The old fields have been cut for the last decade or so with a 4' finish mower behind an 8N. The lawn area with a 42" Walker MC zero turn.
I can't complain too much about the fields, they used to get done once or twice a year, when I was a kid, and the allergens were a nightmare... So much better out there keeping it short.
I'm hoping to knock out most everything with the flail, and just trim with the Walker. Fields will get cut every couple weeks to perhaps a month.
I had to push the field edges back as they were growing in with bramble (not because I want more grass) so there's some heavy briar stalks to deal with. Plan is to just go slow there, and chop it up until the grass takes over again.

Currently has the long y blades that pin directly to the rotor.

There is not a mower available that I am aware of that gives a better cut than the Walker. I have owned and tested many different brands of mowers and Walker always gave a better cut.

The flail mower will give a nice cut and certainly better than a shredder mower. Depending on the quality cut you are getting with the finish mower, the flail may not do a better job.

Please do let us know how the flail works out for you.

 

[toolslinger]

Can't argue about the Walker... We just dropped a new engine in it this season (ouch)... It's a nice machine for sure, and the cut is great. My only beef with it is size really. My father has been retired since the mid 90's, and thinks nothing of spending insane amounts of time mowing. (when I was a kid, I'd spend the whole weekend mowing this place with a 28" wide ride on Bolens Lawn Keeper) The Walker is a GHS, so he collected every blade. Our grass compost piles are significant... My snowbird uncle is also retired, and has been taking care of the mowing for a number of years now, but he's no kid at 78, and I don't know how much longer he's going to want to deal with it. Me, I still have to work... I live and work 100 miles from the property, and I'm in a relationship for 17 years now, that's 165 miles away to the south... So weekends are hectic currently... Getting mowing down to a 1 day affair is going to be important. Likely have to get something like a ditch/bank as well at some point, and stick it on another tractor so I don't have to play around swapping machines. Going to eliminate a lot of the little BS shrubs, and ornamental trees to reduce trimming. Life is complicated, mowing shouldn't be.
Now, if I could just hit the lottery, lots of these issues wouldn't be around anymore....

 

[Wasmeneh]

Just remember a ditch bank requires two rear remotes. One to move the flail in and out and another circuit to move the flail up and down. Not sure if you can add two on a Massey 135 I've seen one before but not sure about 2.

 

[toolslinger]

Thanks. The 135 can actually take a valve with 3 spools. I've got a 2 spool on it now, but I haven't figured out if I can do 2 remotes or just the one and the 3 point. Still a bit of research on that, but I believe I can do 2. That said, if I do a ditch/bank, I'd likely get another tractor to do it, and just leave it set up. I'll have to move along one of the 8N's to make space in the barn, but that's just fine with me.

Regarding the flail, it came home with me. I didn't see any beat, or missing knives, though I could miss something with that many... Seller told me the roller is bent somewhere. Said it wasn't bad, but not right. We'll see. For what I paid, I can always make a new roller if I can't just buy it from Flailmaster or such. Also missing the belt cover, but that too isn't a heavy lift to fab. Will hook it up tomorrow and see what I've got.

 

[toolslinger]

Ok... So today I got to check things out.

No model number anywhere that I can find. No manufacturer tag. One older dealer tag, but that doesn't help too much. Obviously old since it doesn't include an area code on their phone number.

Roller is bent. Bearings are gone. It's a threaded, round shaft roller, which according to the Flailmaster catalog, means I have to convert to something else... That's unfortunate, but not horribly shocking I guess.

There's a triangular rib under the housing that either stiffens it, or deflects debris. Center area of it is rotted out. Easy to cut it out, and weld in, but it isn't going to be the first thing I do. Doesn't get it the way of the flails.

The tube that covers the shaft from the gearbox over to the pullies got warm on the gearbox side after running it at idle for a little while. Not quite sure how it's set up in there, but obviously I've got an unhappy bearing of some sort. It looks like I have to pull the whole gearbox off to remove that tube/shaft... That's on tomorrow's list of chores.

Needs a new belt for sure.

When running the rotor at idle, I could tell something wasn't perfectly balanced. There would be an occasional jump that I though was some resonance point, but now I imagine that jump was the belt... The vibration wasn't from the belt. Something is a little off, but it might just be the flails being a little beat up. I didn't see any missing apart from one station all the way on one side. It looks too close to the housing to take knives, but who knows... I didn't count stations and knives... There's a lot... I guess one missing pair could throw it off enough to feel.

PTO shaft was crashed pretty bad at some point. Has a big pinch in the tube, and a matching ding on the mower. Seems a PO used it on a smaller tractor, and had shorter 3 point arms. On the 135, there's no way I could crash the shaft if the mower was anywhere near level, even at full lift. It ran true, and I didn't see vibration there, but it seems awfully short for the 135. I've only got 4 or 5 inches of overlap in the two halves when hooked up. I think I'll want to get a longer unit. A shame really as the ends work very nicely, and the joints are in very nice shape. We have a Ford rotary that we don't use at this point, and I may be able to steal the PTO shaft from that. I probably won't get that lucky, but ya gotta dream a little...

So repairs will be a little pricey... I'm only in $250 on the mower, so I have room to go before I should have just bought a new import...

 

[toolslinger]

Got everything apart yesterday. I hope that design has been tweaked a bit for new owners, because getting the gearbox and shaft off the mower was a friggin nightmare. I believe I will be opening up the hole where the input spline passes through the body to make reassembly reasonable.

Since I had gone that far, I pulled the rotor as well. No point in fixing everything and then having the rotor bearings go south. Plus I can A) make sure the rotor is straight, and assuming it is, B) do some welding on some of the mounting tabs. Somebody has done some really ****ty welding under there over the years.

Have to call Montage today. If I can get a parts breakout this would be a little easier. They're about an hour or so away from me, so if I have to pick up something heavy, at least I can save some shipping.
So...

• Roller, Roller supports, Conversion parts... If this is crazy expensive, I can make one like was on it, but even that isn't cheap.
• Rotor bearings
• Gearbox Bearings
• Output shaft bearings
• PTO Shaft
• Think I'd like a toe guard for the front if I can. When I had it hooked up, that opening sure seemed big looking back from the tractor seat.
• Knives/Pins/Cotter Pins (if I do everything else, I guess I'll go all the way)

This is all predicated on the rotor being straight, and having good bearing seats. I didn't see any wobble on that, but worth checking. If that's shot, I'll likely cut my losses, and look for something else.

 

[TheFarmerInAdell]

Got everything apart yesterday. I hope that design has been tweaked a bit for new owners, because getting the gearbox and shaft off the mower was a friggin nightmare. I believe I will be opening up the hole where the input spline passes through the body to make reassembly reasonable.

Since I had gone that far, I pulled the rotor as well. No point in fixing everything and then having the rotor bearings go south. Plus I can A) make sure the rotor is straight, and assuming it is, B) do some welding on some of the mounting tabs. Somebody has done some really ****ty welding under there over the years.

Have to call Montage today. If I can get a parts breakout this would be a little easier. They're about an hour or so away from me, so if I have to pick up something heavy, at least I can save some shipping.
So...

• Roller, Roller supports, Conversion parts... If this is crazy expensive, I can make one like was on it, but even that isn't cheap.
• Rotor bearings
• Gearbox Bearings
• Output shaft bearings
• PTO Shaft
• Think I'd like a toe guard for the front if I can. When I had it hooked up, that opening sure seemed big looking back from the tractor seat.
• Knives/Pins/Cotter Pins (if I do everything else, I guess I'll go all the way)

This is all predicated on the rotor being straight, and having good bearing seats. I didn't see any wobble on that, but worth checking. If that's shot, I'll likely cut my losses, and look for something else.

That gearbox mount is the same design on my Alamo SHD88. I'll have to look if that hole is opened up on mine.

I have a little vibration on mine, but it seems to balance out as I get up to operating PTO speed. If you weld on the tabs, make sure it is about the same amount of weld as factory used. Too much or too little weld could cause a vibration. That style of blade is less forgiving if you hit rocks or other hidden objects, but it will leave a very nice cut. The fine cut blades are commonly used for parks and soccer/football/baseball fields. They are also not very good with brush. If you need to wipe out some brush you might be better off using a brush saw to clear the area first.

A toe guard likely won't be necessary. The blades spin the same direction as the tires so you won't be getting things thrown at you in the seat.

The belt is probably a common C-section belt. I believe for my Alamo I use a C53 on it, your belt drive appears to be similar to mine so it may be the same belt.

As for the roller situation, Flailmaster sells (or at least they used to sell) the roller ends so you could make your own roller, just you will need to update the bearings and housings. Do you have a picture of the roller bearing housing and support? I can let you know what you'll need to update. Definitely have Flailmaster quote the parts as they are reasonably priced for their stuff.

 

[leonz]

Please find a copy of the manual for your flail mower here for your use.

 

[toolslinger]

I really only need to open the hole on the right side 3/16-1/4". Not much, but there's just no compressing that assembly to make it fit nicely...

The PO told me it would smooth out at higher RPM. Seeing the cracks, and missing tabs, I felt I was better pulling it to work on it at work where I can TIG everything. Plus it's just easier to work up on a table rather than under the machine... I dropped it on V-Blocks today, and it seems straight enough. Probably .010 wobble at center. Bearing seats aren't perfect, but I think they'll be ok.

The belt is a C section. It's a C50 in fact. Always amazes me when you can read the belt numbers after god knows how much abuse they get....

Good point on the toe guard, and standard rotation...

Fortunately, our fields aren't too bad for rocks, and brush. Worst case is likely to be some 1/2" or so briar near the edges. Since we've been cutting with a finish mower, I can't imagine the flail having any serious trouble. I'm actually mostly glad it's a finish cut unit as I would prefer to eliminate most of the "normal" lawnmower work in favor of this.

I will check with Flailmaster on the replacement ends for the roller. Worst case is I throw a couple chunks of steel on the CNC mill I run, and just put them on the ends of some straight pipe/tube. I'd really rather buy the solution for this, but I'll do what I need to to get up and running.

 

[toolslinger]

Leonz - Thanks so much for that. That's the cleanest parts breakout I've seen yet, and actual instructions are a bonus!

 

[Racenut]

Merry Christmas to me. I say Christmas because it may be December before I can actually do anything with it due to fire hazard here in Ca. But we'll see... at least I'll have it ready to go by then.

Went with the Novatractor MFZ because their hammers just look like they will munch stuff better. I'm less concerned with how fine it cuts grass and more concerned with how it will shred berries, weeds, brush, saplings and small branches. So hopefully these will do the trick. In my wife's hand they look huge, though they are still pretty big.

Will review once I get a chance to munch some stuff

 

[leonz]

Hello and good afternoon Racenut,

I want to welcome you as the newest resident member of the "Flail Mower Nations" from the Golden State.
To save yourself a great deal of aggravation I want to suggest to you that you remove the spring clips and
drill these holes on the recutting bars larger to enable you to use 1/4" by 1" inch fine threaded bolts and
nylock nuts.
By doing this you will avoid losing the recutting bars and also avoid having to hunt for them
on the mowed land.

Happy mowing

 

[Racenut]

remove the spring clips and drill these holes on the recutting bars larger to enable you to use 1/4" by 1" inch fine threaded bolts and nylock nuts.

Thanks or the tip. I'll take care of that before they have a chance to escape.

 

[toolslinger]

Well, after some back and forth with Montage, I've got all the parts I need ordered. That includes a new, complete roller, which they didn't blink an eye at providing. I fortunately found most of the gearbox bearings on the shelf at work, so I saved a little there. They're not exotic, so I didn't really want to pay the premium from Montage...

Cost for everything is more than I wanted to spend, but fine really. I'll be somewhere under or right at $2000 for the mower when it's up and running, including the $250 purchase price...

One item they didn't have that I need is the Roller Nut Guard. That's NLA, and I'm missing one, and the second is incredibly worn. I can't imagine how much this machine has been run to grind that down so badly...

Anyway, I run a CNC mill for prototyping parts at my company, so I thought I'd take a stab at making them.

Cut from 4140 PH steel. Assuming I don't loose one while mowing, I should be good on these for the rest of my life...
Second one is on the machine finishing up currently...

 

[jthibodeau89]

Noce work on the cnc. What make and model cnc mill do you run?

Icagree that the parts you made will likely outlast you.

 

[toolslinger]

We've got a Haas VF2ss. Mostly I run Aluminum, and Stainless, so getting feeds and speeds right for the PH was a little annoying, plus we just moved to a full 3d software from 2.5, so I was using this as a learning experience. These parts have a lot of play when installed, so this was the perfect part to learn the various 3d strategies on. If I ended up with something even reasonably close it would have worked... Second piece wasn't quite as good. I must have been off by .005 when I flipped it on X, so I've kinda got a parting line look on that one. Oh well, that buffed right out... Now I just have to get those bloody magnetic chips out of the machine...

 

[ddbackhoe]

Liked my import flail so much that I finally finished modding it to fit on the front of my skidsteer. Now if only I had a telescopic boom to reach farther under ,,,,,

 

[jonsstihl]

nice work, do you have another hydraulic outlet so you can move the cylinder in and out on your telescoping boom you are going to build

how did you mount the hydraulic motor to resist the torque motion. Assuming it is on some kind of plate between the A frame.

 

[jthibodeau89]

We've got a Haas VF2ss. Mostly I run Aluminum, and Stainless, so getting feeds and speeds right for the PH was a little annoying, plus we just moved to a full 3d software from 2.5, so I was using this as a learning experience. These parts have a lot of play when installed, so this was the perfect part to learn the various 3d strategies on. If I ended up with something even reasonably close it would have worked... Second piece wasn't quite as good. I must have been off by .005 when I flipped it on X, so I've kinda got a parting line look on that one. Oh well, that buffed right out... Now I just have to get those bloody magnetic chips out of the machine...

Gotcha, Haas VF2ss. I would like to get a surplus VF1 or VF2 for my retirement plan. May also look at a Fadal. Maybe early 2000 vintage.