lets discuss preps for disasters

[k0ua]

On storing fuel for a generator, what type of fuel is best? Gas seems to be the worse since it breaks down so quickly and needs to be used and replaced on a regular basis. If I see a storm coming, I will fill my 5 gallon gas cans, but that's just for a small Honda generator that isn't big enough to keep my freezers and fridge going. How long can you store diesel? Or is it best to just do the same as I do with gas and fill up fuel cans when I see a storm on the way? I've often thought that a propane generator would be best. Burns clean and you can store it for a very long time. I have natural gas to my parents house, but didn't run it to mine. I can if I want to, just a matter of digging the trench and installing everything needed to make it happen. Are there natural gas generators?

Eddie, I have heard of people using diesel that was many years old. As long as it doesn't get water in it to grow algae I think you can keep if for a very long time. Of course as you mentioned propane keeps for a very long time (forever?). Yes, most of the auto start generators can be run on propane or natural gas with the proper conversion kits.

 

[davesl708]

One thing a woman who spent a year at sea in a sailboat taught me was packing stores. She was told by many that dry goods were best. They don't spoil.
Then she thought if the boat gets swamped and the dry goods get wet your toast. Could be weeks before getting to another port. You also have to carry enough water to add to the food. So she went with canned goods. Water is already in it so less drinking water used in preparation. Canned goods last for years and not harmed by water or other contaminates.

So I keep at least a months worth of canned fruit and veggies in rotation as well as other stores.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

On storing fuel for a generator, what type of fuel is best? Gas seems to be the worse since it breaks down so quickly and needs to be used and replaced on a regular basis. If I see a storm coming, I will fill my 5 gallon gas cans, but that's just for a small Honda generator that isn't big enough to keep my freezers and fridge going. How long can you store diesel? Or is it best to just do the same as I do with gas and fill up fuel cans when I see a storm on the way? I've often thought that a propane generator would be best. Burns clean and you can store it for a very long time. I have natural gas to my parents house, but didn't run it to mine. I can if I want to, just a matter of digging the trench and installing everything needed to make it happen. Are there natural gas generators?

Generac makes a natural gas generator. Very popular in cities where power lines are overhead and gas lines are buried. Natural gas tends to be more reliable than electricity, phone or water.

 

[EddieWalker]

Thanks. This ties into another reason I want a bigger generator. I want something big enough to power my welder so I can do my fence corners, round pen and entrance gates. Plus whatever else I will need to weld out in the field away from my house. If I go with propane, I'm hoping I can run it off a portable tank like used for BBQ's. Diesel seems more common, but I haven't really compared the two types to see what would be more practical.

 

[TnAndy]

Thanks. This ties into another reason I want a bigger generator. I want something big enough to power my welder so I can do my fence corners, round pen and entrance gates. Plus whatever else I will need to weld out in the field away from my house. If I go with propane, I'm hoping I can run it off a portable tank like used for BBQ's. Diesel seems more common, but I haven't really compared the two types to see what would be more practical.

I did a "2 for 1".....bought a Miller Bobcat welder/generator. 8,000w on the generator side. My thinking was I would be more likely to keep up this kind of unit so it was ready to generate power when I need it by having the welder that I would use enough to maintenance it. Many folks with backup gasoline generators let them sit around for years, and when they do need them, they have rebuild the carb before it will run again because they never get it out and 'exercise' it.

As for keeping gasoline, if you'll keep it in sealed containers, using PRI-G, it will keep quite a while. I've personally stored it 5 years in 55gal drums with no problem. Diesel, use PRI-D, and it will keep forever I think. I have a buddy in Alaska that was using diesel stored in drums from WW2 as of a few years ago.

You could run a portable generator off propane, and use a BBQ tank, but be aware that even small generators use 1/2-1 gallon per hour of propane, and a BBQ tank is around 4 gallons....so you're not looking at a long run time per tank. I bought an older Onan 4kw generator out of an RV that I plan to convert to propane, mount on a permanent skid to move with the tractor, and mount a couple of 100lb bottles with it. That would give 40-60hrs of run time (depending on load).

 

[TnAndy]

Forum posted twice...don't ask me why......

 

[Egon]

I have bottles of booze and quarts of motor oil. I can probably trade for anything else needed.....

You think?

 

[Garandman]

On storing fuel for a generator, what type of fuel is best? Gas seems to be the worse since it breaks down so quickly and needs to be used and replaced on a regular basis. If I see a storm coming, I will fill my 5 gallon gas cans, but that's just for a small Honda generator that isn't big enough to keep my freezers and fridge going. How long can you store diesel? Or is it best to just do the same as I do with gas and fill up fuel cans when I see a storm on the way? I've often thought that a propane generator would be best. Burns clean and you can store it for a very long time. I have natural gas to my parents house, but didn't run it to mine. I can if I want to, just a matter of digging the trench and installing everything needed to make it happen. Are there natural gas generators?

You can buy converters to run gensets on gas, propane, or natural gas.

Most backup generators around here are propane. But you need enough tank capacity that the tanks won't chill and loose pressure: you aren't likely to have that problem.

Natural gas is "off grid" but in Hurricane Sandy, some coastal neighborhoods were wiped out so the gas was shut off to that area - which meant those who'd survived OK got shut down. Oil tanks and propane tanks got washed or blown away as well so not sure that's material.

A lot of people who heat with fuel oil run diesel because it's the same fuel. There are a lot of good Milsurp gensets around as well.

When we were looking at houses in NH, every one that had backup power ran on propane. But we run our portable generators on gas because there are a lot more supply points if there was a storm.

 

[BigBoyToys]

For the ultimate in flexibility...
Triple-Fuel Troy-Bilt 10,500 Watt Generator

 

[k0ua]

For the ultimate in flexibility...
Triple-Fuel Troy-Bilt 10,500 Watt Generator

1 % voltage regulation and sine wave output also... Looks good!!

 

[Industrial Toys]

I wonder if EMP considerations are worthwhile. Many Military Surplus Gensets on E-Bay are EMP shielded. But then, after an EMP event, you may not have anything left working anyway.

Personally (and it scares the bijeepers out of me), I think the technical matters of survival are the easy part. It's the other humans that will be your downfall.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

We had the great ice storm up here in 1998 and it was shocking to me how few farmers were prepared. Many diary farms had no back up power and had to share generators - unacceptable! People with wells had no way of getting water, and if they didn't heat with wood there were bigger problems. Many with generators hadn't started them in so long that they could not get them to start.

I agree that many rural people have abandoned the independent 19th century technology that was so reliable. I have neighbors who built all new, 100% electric homes. Heat is electric, water is electric, and then they neglected a transfer switch and generator in case of power outages. In the middle of the winter, they were cooking on the hot plate attached to their propane grill and boiling creek water to drink. In many cases they didn't even have a coffee pot or telephone that didn't require electricity.

Everyone's situation is different. In my case I had to install a cistern to compensate for a very low flow well in the summer, so I placed the cistern above the level of the house. I have 2500 gallons of gravity feed drinking water stored at all times, so we can flush the toilet as much as we want. We also have wood heat. I have a transfer switch and generator, but don't even bother to get the generator out unless the power outage runs 36 hours or more.

Beyond that, most farms once had a substantial pantry full of dried and canned foods. These were not survival foods, they were everyday foods that formed the basis for meals. There was a hand pump or a windmill for water. I only know of one farm that still uses a windmill and water tower for domestic water.

 

[Industrial Toys]

It never ceases to amaze me, how many wealthy people I have met that won't spend the money on a generator, never mind a good one. Or those that rip out their wood fireplace and put in a gas job.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

For long term storage of gasoline I ran across a guy with an interesting system.

First, of course, he used non-ethanol gasoline. Ethanol always has trace water associated, and water is where the sludge grows.

He then added stabilant, put the gasoline in heavy duty steel drums, and pressurized the drums with butane after purging the oxygen out of the head space. You have to leave head space because of thermal expansion and contraction. He claimed he could store gasoline for years that way.

 

[Soundguy]

Completely sealed and light oroof would be a good store for both diesel and gas, ethanol or not.

 

[onlyonenow]

I have converted three of my generators to propane. One is already a dual gas/propane. Now one thing to remember for those that live where the temps can get to 0 F or lower; propane stops flowing from smaller tanks at around 20 degrees or so. Had that problem last winter. LUCKILY the generator I had hooked up was the dual fuel one so I just had to flip the fuel selector switch and used gas once the propane would not work.

I think a mix is a good idea. Flexibility can save your rear end. But for long term propane is definitely superior as regards fuel storage. You can try all sorts of tricks with gas but after a couple of years you are going to have problems no matter what.

To me have your propane for your back up; use gas for normal operations that way you are constantly using it and storage long term is not a problem. Have a couple of 100Lb tanks of Propane and for most people that will take you through that week to 10 days that is the most realistic scenario.

The EMP thing is way over blown. To start with the weapon has to be detonated in near earth orbit; and second it has to be HUGE. We are talking multiple megatons. NK is decades away from having that ability. The only ones that could do that now is Russia for certain and maybe China. And if either of them does that our Subs wipe them out. MAD is not a concept it is accepted reality when the big boys are looking at each other.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I was also thinking a major MCD (sunspot) event. Does anyone know what happened just prior to the mass electricification of the country when such an event hit? Can you imagine what would happen today?

I understand the advantages of LPG, but I personally would not like be the one trying to source LPG in the aftermath of some catastrophie. Even just a major ice storm. Worst case, I want a fuel I could beg, borrow or steal if need be.

 

[onlyonenow]

I was also thinking a major MCD (sunspot) event. Does anyone know what happened just prior to the mass electricification of the country when such an event hit? Can you imagine what would happen today?

I understand the advantages of LPG, but I personally would not like be the one trying to source LPG in the aftermath of some catastrophie. Even just a major ice storm. Worst case, I want a fuel I could beg, borrow or steal if need be.

Well you have to consider this:

if we get a huge CME then it really does not matter since all or virtually all electronics will be fried. It will take years to partially recover.

In that case there is no use for generators since you will have nothing much to run and all fuels will be exhausted within a year at most.

At that point you are back to mid 19th century and steam and that kind of tech.

now as regards getting fuel after a major ice storm get reasonable. If you can store enough for 10 days that is all you will need. After that you should be able to get out somewhere and even if you have to drive 100 miles you will be able to get fuel.

So frankly your worries are over blown IF you took the precaution of having that 10 day grace on hand. IN THAT CASE LPG is the way to go since you do not have to worry about your fuel going bad.

 

[RSKY]

I have had no problem storing gas in regular five gallon plastic containers as long as it is ethanol free. I have three containers plus a couple smaller ones and rotate thru them. Just use the oldest first and don't let all get empty.


Dad would order 250 gallons every time our 500 gallon metal tank got down to 1/4 full. Changed the tank filter once a year. Never had problems.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I have a good stock pile of fuel oil. Who knows how long that would last. The point is, I would not, amoung other probable issues and tasks, have to go out in search of fuel, along with many others. This in itself, is a HUGE advantage to running on fuel oil, in my opinion.

When things go to heck, they usually do so in a very compounded way.