terryknight
Veteran Member
the 290 was nuts. last i checked it was 349.99 or something like that at the dealer, granted it has now been replaced.
Larger Saw Purchase
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I see used 290's for around $300 on craigslist. I can't understand how they bring as much or more than a 026 that is a pro grade saw.
I finally got a chance to drop by the Stihl dealer yesterday to compare the 461 and 660. Both saws had 25 inch bars. The 461 seemed a little nose heavy and the 660 felt really balanced. Even though the 660 was 2 pounds heavier, I could barley notice the difference. So, I'll probably wait for my next purchase when the 661 gets reintroduced.
mikehaugen
Elite Member
I have a 25" bar on my 441 and it is a tad nose heavy. I have heard with a 20'' or the 28'' light bar it is balanced perfect. I have a 28'' on the 660 and it is also a little nose heavy. When is the 661 supposed to be reintroduced?
The dealer is supposed to start the saw when they sell it to you. I have seen some saws that are supposedly NIB like that on craigslist. I have wondered if it is a scam. They could have straight gassed a new saw and threw it back in the box to sell someone a junk saw. Before I would buy any used saw I would recommend either checking the compression or pulling the muffler to inspect the piston and cylinder. All you need to pull the muffler is a T-27 torx.
s219
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Be sure not to confuse weight and balance -- they are completely different things. Pick the saw powerhead that has the right size, weight, and power for your applications, then pick the proper bar for usability and balance. It's almost comical to pick one saw over the other based on how they feel at the dealer, especially with no experience running either one in wood. It's about like kicking the tires when shopping for a car.
The 461 is balanced with the standard 20" bar or the 28" light bar (I have both). The standard 25" bar will feel nose heavy. Really, try to handle a 461 with a 20" bar or 28" light bar if you want to get the right combination of weight and balance for "tire kicking" comparisons at the dealer.
As you noticed, the 660 has the extra weight needed to counterbalance the 25" bar. If you go longer than 25" on the 660, look into the light bars, otherwise it will get nose heavy too.
No knocks against the 660, but it's still 2 lbs heavier, and you will notice that 2 lbs over a couple hours or all-day use. Don't confuse balance and weight.
Timbersawz
Bronze Member
Keep in mind that often they are changing saw models due to EPA regulations, not because they have designed a better saw over the old model. Its taken decades for any of the companies to do better than the 242xp or 262xp.
hslogger
Platinum Member
It's not the size of the wand, it is the magic behind it. Large power saws are heavy, and if you are going from the pick up to the pile, well who cares how much it weighs. Generally, the 4.5 cube saws and larger are more BALANCED with longer bars. You get up to the big Stihl or Husky and having a bar under 28 inches is a lead sled. You can cut a two foot tree easily with a twenty inch bar if you have the power and have it set up right. Safety chains while offering a safety kick back measure and smoother running slow down your cutting. Full skip chains are dangerous as can be to the inexperienced and cut like a jackrabbit. Full comp chains cut smoothly and slower.
I have little snotter saws with fourteen inch bars that will out cut something with a sixteen or eighteen that they often come with. I have bigger saws that run up to 42". That means I can cut a six or seven footer with relative ease an safety. People think they need big bars, and you don't. Weight of a saw is one thing if you have it in your grip for a gallon and a half a day. If you are just beavering up stuff for an hour here or there, what's the point?
I have little snotter saws with fourteen inch bars that will out cut something with a sixteen or eighteen that they often come with. I have bigger saws that run up to 42". That means I can cut a six or seven footer with relative ease an safety. People think they need big bars, and you don't. Weight of a saw is one thing if you have it in your grip for a gallon and a half a day. If you are just beavering up stuff for an hour here or there, what's the point?
I know an old guy that is a logger. He said he never ran a saw with a bar larger than 20.'' He told me he took down a tree that was over 5' in diameter with the 20'' bar. I think cutting something that big with a small bar would slow down production.
I agree that safety chains do not sun smooth.
hslogger
Platinum Member
Your ol buddy who fell five foot trees with a twenty inch bar must'a been quite a beaver. PRODUCTION timber cutting is a lot different from bucking up stuff fifty feet from your pickup truck. Very few "woodcutters " NEED a big falling saw and three foot bar. There is no sense in buying a five cube saw and big bar if you aren't gonna bury the bar all the time.
TomSeller
Super Member
His big saw probably broke down. I flooded my MS441 while I had the Power Company waiting to re-connect the power to my rental house (I had them disconnect it so I could fall a danger tree where the power line ran). So I had to fall the 36" tree with my 12" top handle. It was a leaner and I already had it chained so it would not barber chair on me. It can be done, but I would not make a habit of it. If I had not cut professionally in the past, I would not have done it.
newbury
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Yeah, here's an example of the junk I bought off Craigslist for $450.
Of course besides the boxes and bar it also included the Alaskan sawmill which I wanted, and they go for $200 plus new. The guy lived in suburbia and had milled a few trees around his house, filled his one car garage with cut lumber and never got around to building anything.
I'm into chainsaw milling, and am looking for an inexpensive 5 or 6 foot bar so I can mill the occasional big tree.
TomSeller
Super Member
I wish I could find "junk" like that. Seriously, did you have a mask on when you bought it? A "Stihl" if I ever "saw" one. Very nice.
I think he ran 056's back then. He still has some but he said he is afraid to run a big saw since he is older now, he said he can't hold them.
Does it burn your hands when you use it?
Are you running .043 or .050 chain on you 192? I have .043 on my 170 and it bent a cutter.
TomSeller
Super Member
I have the 0.043". I have not bent a cutter but I have boogered up a drive link when the chain popped out one time I did not get the bar tight. The 192 only has one nut to tighten the bar to save weight I assume. The 170 has two. As far as I know the saws share the same motor.
Happy Gilmore
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That is definately a piece of junk, I'll give you fair scrap metal price for it, don't want your garage so cluttered with junk. :shocked:
I've gotten some pretty good deals along the way, but that one's something to write home about :thumbsup:
jpm1
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I have 2 MS660's. In my opinion, if your just going to use it once or twice on on tree, you can't justify the cost. Flat out there not cheap to buy nor to run for that matter. I have 2, 038 supers, a little 250 limbing saw and 2 660's. i reach for the 660 more times than any of the others. Their duel ported and holding a 25" and 42" bar there no tree that will not tremble with fear when it see's you coming. I have let several people cut with it on big Oak logs ranging from 44" and up, it left a smile on their face like a school girls first kiss. Their heavy to fall with but as far as im concerned, i want weight and power anyday to get the job done.
The block on my loader forks is a 42" oak block cut 20" thick for my firewood. I was given a 10 wheeler load of these because they had metal in them and the metal detector rejected them from the band saw. Every body was afraid to take them for firewood because of the "metal threat" thats how i got them. I cut one 8 penny nail in half, never boogered the chain or nothing. Most people are afraid to cut this stuff, not me! i'll take all of this stuff i can get.
It took Less than a minute to cut thru it and to fill my boot with sawdust :laughing: I just love my 660's . . . .John
The block on my loader forks is a 42" oak block cut 20" thick for my firewood. I was given a 10 wheeler load of these because they had metal in them and the metal detector rejected them from the band saw. Every body was afraid to take them for firewood because of the "metal threat" thats how i got them. I cut one 8 penny nail in half, never boogered the chain or nothing. Most people are afraid to cut this stuff, not me! i'll take all of this stuff i can get.
It took Less than a minute to cut thru it and to fill my boot with sawdust :laughing: I just love my 660's . . . .John
