Rotary Cutter Large Area Mowing

[TripleR]

And just who are you calling intelligent!?!?!? :laughing:

"Seemingly" intelligent as I am easily fooled being young and gullible.:laughing:

 

[leonz]

Why does every pro flail mower person automatically site the reason to get a flail over a rotary is because a rotary can "sling objects from underneath the mower." If you don't think a flail can throw things your kidding yourself. Most flails have a roller on the back that does a good job at stopping things but they also have about an 8" gap above that to shed clippings that lots of hard objects can come flying out at very high rates of speed. Plus if you think about it, with a flail you've got all those knives spinning vertically in line with tractor operator, if one of them breaks free it has to go somewhere. I've seen used high end Alamo flails beat to he!! just like a well abused rotary. I'm not bashing flails, I simply think they can be just as dangerous as other mowers.

For what it is worth I know you are not bashing
flailmowers.

The properly designed geometry of a flail mowers
hood AND ITS THICKNESS in construction where
the steel is rolled into the desired shape and length
of the formed piece prior to welding the end weldments
and structural tubing to the mowers hood weldment.

This in turn creates the air flow and induces the
aerodynamic forces which create the pressure
gradient that increase the ability of the rotor
and knives to lift and suction the clippings up
and over the rotor back to the ground.

It taks a lot to break a stamped and or a heat
treated grass slicer, and the mowers hood covers
an area greater than 180 degrees in the total
circumference reducing the chance of
an ejected grass slicer or hammer knive.

The other item is the potential trajectory of
a grass slicer knive after it breaks (if it breaks),
as the knive will hit the interior of the hood then
the ground and stick there before it can be
bounced out from under the mower hood.

Most of the time the shackle will break-which it is
designed to do as it wears at greater rate than
the knives stamped mounting hole.

The thirty year old grass slicers I have have very
little if any wear in the mounting slots and we have
never had a knive failure from a stamped mounting hole.

The only time a grass knive or hammer knive moves to
some degree is when either of two things happens,
when the flailmowers rotor is spun up to operating speed
and then back down to a stop or being when the grass or
hammer knive and knive hanger impacts and object and
folds back as it passes over the object and it may contact
an adjacent knive or the knive behind it.

Iif the grass slicers are long in size or a finish mower flail rotor
has a high knive count and or a large diameter rotor like my flaimower
where the knives may bump into each other when the centrifugal forces become less and less with relation to the slowing speed of the flail mowers rotor from the destruction of the drive belts or the disengaging of of the Power Take Off at the end of a mowing session.

The disdvantage of a smaller flail mower rotor is that is has to spin faster have longer knives typically than a flail mower with a larger diameter rotor
which does not have to spin as fast as it takes less centrifugal force to move a knive that is smaller in total length as the mass of the rotor itself is greater and the diameter of the flail mowers rotor is larger.

 

[Hollow]

"Seemingly" intelligent as I am easily fooled being young and gullible.:laughing:

Well alright then, as long as your not insulting my stupidity we're good. It took a lot of hard work to get where I am :confused2:

 

[Soundguy]

reminds me of a john wayne comment from the green beret's movie..

 

[Farmwithjunk]

For what it is worth I know you are not bashing
flailmowers.

The properly designed geometry of a flail mowers
hood AND ITS THICKNESS in construction where
the steel is rolled into the desired shape and length
of the formed piece prior to welding the end weldments
and structural tubing to the mowers hood weldment.

This in turn creates the air flow and induces the
aerodynamic forces which create the pressure
gradient that increase the ability of the rotor
and knives to lift and suction the clippings up
and over the rotor back to the ground.

It taks a lot to break a stamped and or a heat
treated grass slicer, and the mowers hood covers
an area greater than 180 degrees in the total
circumference reducing the chance of
an ejected grass slicer or hammer knive.

The other item is the potential trajectory of
a grass slicer knive after it breaks (if it breaks),
as the knive will hit the interior of the hood then
the ground and stick there before it can be
bounced out from under the mower hood.

Most of the time the shackle will break-which it is
designed to do as it wears at greater rate than
the knives stamped mounting hole.

The thirty year old grass slicers I have have very
little if any wear in the mounting slots and we have
never had a knive failure from a stamped mounting hole.

The only time a grass knive or hammer knive moves to
some degree is when either of two things happens,
when the flailmowers rotor is spun up to operating speed
and then back down to a stop or being when the grass or
hammer knive and knive hanger impacts and object and
folds back as it passes over the object and it may contact
an adjacent knive or the knive behind it.

Iif the grass slicers are long in size or a finish mower flail rotor
has a high knive count and or a large diameter rotor like my flaimower
where the knives may bump into each other when the centrifugal forces become less and less with relation to the slowing speed of the flail mowers rotor from the destruction of the drive belts or the disengaging of of the Power Take Off at the end of a mowing session.

The disdvantage of a smaller flail mower rotor is that is has to spin faster have longer knives typically than a flail mower with a larger diameter rotor
which does not have to spin as fast as it takes less centrifugal force to move a knive that is smaller in total length as the mass of the rotor itself is greater and the diameter of the flail mowers rotor is larger.

Wow... A long monotonous read which describes why flails are incredibly maintenance intensive, relatively fragile, and over-complicated compared to a MUCH more efficient, lower cost, less hp demanding rotary that'll do the same job at a faster pace.....

If I were in the business of building and selling flail mowers....I'd pay you handsomely....to quit posting......

 

[Soundguy]

how many old MF's you got now? like 35 thru say.. 165?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

how many old MF's you got now? like 35 thru say.. 165?

1. '56 Ferguson F40
2. '57 Massey Ferguson 50
3. '71 MF150
4. '74 MF150
5. '74MF175
6. '79MF265

5 and 6 will be re-sold when ready.

4 Fords, 2 newer MF's, 8 Deere's, a Kubota, and maybe an Allis Chalmers 190XT (if seller accepts my offer)

 

[leonz]

Wow... A long monotonous read which describes why flails are incredibly maintenance intensive, relatively fragile, and over-complicated compared to a MUCH more efficient, lower cost, less hp demanding rotary that'll do the same job at a faster pace.....

If I were in the business of building and selling flail mowers....I'd pay you handsomely....to quit posting......

If anyone would like to see flailmowers at workpPlease visit www.inbrezice.com and enjoy the videos of their 21 foot folding gang flailmowers bringing sunflowers and 10 foot goldenrod down to the sod in one pass.

 

[foreman Etexas]

I use my Kubota 5040(45pto)to pull 8ft LP,cut our bottum 4' tall weeds and have mowed my yard with it leaves a really good cut.I will say the wider you go,gonna have to really watch for the mower deck digging in. I do use our 12ft sometimes for shorter stuff around 1' but it will dig in when trying to mow low on un-level ground,found out on my yard first time. I just got a 15ft batwing and have also been using it for light clean up,really can make up some ground. I am going to sell my LP 8ft and looking at adding 2 more remotes and getting a 12ft batwing and if I get into some thick stuff can always scoot over some or just pick up a wing....


Smooth pasture was able to run 5mph with 15ft batwing,if your mowing rough ground might as well go as wide as you can,gotta go slow anyways...

 

[Soundguy]

our county has some 20' schulte rotary mowers.

for stemmy stuff in dry WRA's they pulled em with the same 7610s that normally pull 15' mowers for ROW mowing.. Might want a touch more hp in grass though.. but then.. those are 95 hp tractors only.. 110-130 might be nice in lush grass...

 

[Farmwithjunk]

our county has some 20' schulte rotary mowers.

for stemmy stuff in dry WRA's they pulled em with the same 7610s that normally pull 15' mowers for ROW mowing.. Might want a touch more hp in grass though.. but then.. those are 95 hp tractors only.. 110-130 might be nice in lush grass...

Just as the mowing season ended, I added a couple 20'ers to the inventory. I got to use one for a while behind my 4440 Deere (130pto hp "stock", but turned up to 145 hp) I was mowing Johnson grass that was taller than the cab of the tractor, albeit dried down from late summer drought conditions. I knew the ground well, and knew there was nothing in my way....so I could go as fast as conditions would allow. At one point, had 'er rolling along just above 5mph. Made for fast work of 40+ acres. Big issue with mowers that size is their weight....Gotta have a stout tractor to drag a mower like that through tough spots, especially if you hit any wet spots or hills.

 

[golfsuper]

I use my Kubota 5040(45pto)to pull 8ft LPView attachment 250090View attachment 250091,cut our bottum 4' tall weeds and have mowed my yard with it leaves a really good cut.I will say the wider you go,gonna have to really watch for the mower deck digging in. I do use our 12ft sometimesView attachment 250092 for shorter stuff around 1' but it will dig in when trying to mow low on un-level ground,found out on my yard first time. I just got a 15ft batwingView attachment 250094 and have also been using it for light clean up,really can make up some ground. I am going to sell my LP 8ft and looking at adding 2 more remotes and getting a 12ft batwing and if I get into some thick stuff can always scoot over some or just pick up a wing....


Smooth pasture was able to run 5mph with 15ft batwing,if your mowing rough ground might as well go as wide as you can,gotta go slow anyways...

That's some helpful info. I'm leaning towards the 12' bushog

 

[foreman Etexas]

That's some helpful info. I'm leaning towards the 12' bushog

I would try one out first and see how the tractor handles it,around here wouldnt be an issue to use one from dealer,lets say half day or some will let your take for weekend(if they know your serious about buying). I liked the 12ft over the 8ft for getting up under/around trees. The 12ft vrs the 8ft money wise is gonna cost you couple grand more,then if you get into the batwing 12ft probaly be in the 10 to 11 thousand range,double what you can get an 8ft for. Landpride did come out with a new 12ft batwing this year,and have went and look at it,nice unit. Then hauling the 12ft flat-deck if thats something you may do,now thats why I bought my 8ft in the first place,fits nicely on the trailer with nothing hanging off either side,cause I haul mine alot down these norrow county roads.Didnt even consider batwing at first cause,I thought the weight would be an issue. Just try one first then go from there,my 2cents

Look me up around spring,and I'll be happy to let you use either(just aslong as it on my pastures:laughing

 

[GinNB]

For what it's worth, I'm in between farmwithjunk and leonz in my opinion of flails and our farm has a bunch of flails and fewer bush hogs and no finish mowers. IMHO, I don't find flails to cut trees/saplings or high grass nearly as well as common opinion on here seems to think.

We run them because they shave blueberries down to ground level quite well on uneven, rocky ground. Light (3/16" thick) Y-shaped flail blades deflect from sod and rocks quite nicely if you have to follow the ground closely. The alternative is burning them, which is in the ballpark of $400/acre. That makes flail maintenance a cheap dream. Small trees, grass, etc have been mostly removed with herbicides. Throw damp grass/ferns/etc into the mix and job quality goes down, travel speed goes down, and drivetrain maintenance and fuel use goes up. Smart operators mow grassy sections on dry days or after the dew has dried off. Even dry grass wraps the cutting edge of the knives and gives you a duller, slower cut. If a cut height of 3-4" on fairly flat ground is enough, in my experience a rotary will just fly along cheaply compared to a flail. Maintenance is quite cheap, and keeping your blades sharp is easy as well. Ever try to sharpen 96 flail blades on a 6' flail mower? Me neither. Reverse them when they're too dull and then replace them. We use flails because rotaries can't shave quite close enough and the alternative is extremely expensive. We also have a few bush hogs because flails don't handle the nasty stuff as well or as cheaply.

A flail with heavy knives (cast iron scoop or 8" Y blades) is a good blend, but you can kiss $500 in knives away quite quickly if you mow a few acres with rocks in them. And they'll fire a fist-sized rock a loooooong way. If you can stay out of rocks and need to mulch the small trees down into smaller bits (good for my kind of farming when bringing in new land or instant rough landscaping), then a flail with large heavy blades beats a rotary, but not because it'll travel faster or is cheaper to buy or operate. Many times though it's better to hit small trees quickly with a bush hog first and then mulch with the flail if it's required.

 

[leonz]

Wow... A long monotonous read which describes why flails are incredibly maintenance intensive, relatively fragile, and over-complicated compared to a MUCH more efficient, lower cost, less hp demanding rotary that'll do the same job at a faster pace.....

If I were in the business of building and selling flail mowers....I'd pay you handsomely....to quit posting......

I would guess by the following the Hiniker folks disagree with
your opinion. I hope I have not bored you all too much.

I thought I would post a link to the Hiniker home page
as the AR 2000 model has:

25 foot width of cut
1/4 thick AR200 abrasion resistant steel hood
2,000 RPM dynamically balanced 10 inch diameter rotor
5/16 thick 3 inch long Wear Tuff hard surfaced side slicer knives-direct mounted.
recutter bar
full length 5 by 7 inch front frame tube
banded drive belts
235 horsepower gearbox

The AR1700 has the 3 inch wide scoop knives which create a
(high vacuum) pressure gradient is the proper term

Hiniker Company - Snow & Ice Equipment, Agricultural Equipment, & Other Innovative Products

 

[Hollow]

The 12ft vrs the 8ft money wise is gonna cost you couple grand more,then if you get into the batwing 12ft probaly be in the 10 to 11 thousand range,double what you can get an 8ft for.

TS12's can be had for about $9200, 2212's are slightly more expensive I think.

 

[foreman Etexas]

TS12's can be had for about $9200, 2212's are slightly more expensive I think.

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6720371&
I was off alittle



http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6643865&
Couldnt find a 8ft

 

[Soundguy]

Gotta have a stout tractor to drag a mower like that through tough spots, especially if you hit any wet spots or hills.

for sure!

I'm just glad i have MOSTLY flat areas on my property, even with a 15' cutter...

soudnguy

 

[swagturf]

If you would like a finished look, I would go with the Land Pride AFM4211 (11')...it is like a 11' zero turn mower. If you are not real concerned with a finished look, but pretty dang good, I would go with the Land Pride RC2512 (a pasture type mower).