Land Clearing: Need Opinions!

[BobG_in_VA]

My wife & I have 34 acres in Central VA that we will be building on in about 2 years. The land is now ALL WOODED with 27 year growth after timbering (Not quite enough canopy to block out the nasty undergrowth yet). Trees are oaks, pines, gums, etc. I'm going down this weekend to "walk" the property with the guy that's gonna' do the bulldozin'. He's now 70 and still working hard. He's got all the necessary equip to do anything I need. I'm thinking about 3-4 acres cleared plus about a 3/4 acre pond (have a spring running down thru the property). Issues: 1. Haven't gone thru the county yet to do the perk (hopefully we will be building a 3 to 4 bdroom house) and I understand they want to see the plans for the house before doing the perk. 2. Excavator guys says don't run the heavy equipment over the place where you would like to have the drainfield--doh! 3. I would like to start and get the pole barn/sheds built for my equipement (will have to move some down there once to work once the deed is done). Questions: How much (if any) should I do now, understanding that the travel time equals $ if he has to come back? How else will I be able to proceed if I don't get some land cleared (no place on the whole 34 acres to put equip till I get some cleared off)? Thanks! In a tizzy! BobG in VA

 

[Highbeam]

I learned the hard way that it is better to get a building permit and then do clearing than it is to clear and then try and get a permit. Especially with a "spring" on the property. Perhaps only my county government has gone extreme but it seems to be pretty common. First stop in to the county to see about permits to build a road in and a turn-around.

 

[midlf]

Do what you have to do with layouts and permits to get the perc done and approved. Without a good perc you just have a nice piece of recreational land.

 

[Keith_B]

Get the perc done first, then it won't matter so much about disturbing the ground. In my area if you doze and fill before the perc is done you have to wait something like 6 months or a year before they will do the perc.

 

[CurlyDave]

I learned the hard way that it is better to get a building permit and then do clearing than it is to clear and then try and get a permit. Especially with a "spring" on the property. Perhaps only my county government has gone extreme but it seems to be pretty common. First stop in to the county to see about permits to build a road in and a turn-around.

I would go even slower than Highbeam.

1. Check with county to see what permits are necessary.

2. Strongly consider hiring a consultant to help you with permits, land use, etc. We bought 40 acres last year and the first thing we did was hire a consultant. $1500 and we suddenly had a retired county planner in our corner, who was plugged into the "old boy network". Two months later we had a site development permit and approval to build a house. Still needed building permits, well permits, septic permits, etc, but these were all just formalities.

3. Once you have a site approval, or whatever it is called locally, get a septic guy to go out & walk the property with you. Locate where the septic field will go, then where the house & driveway will go. That way, you can have a rough plan worked out before you clear anything.

This may sound frustratingly slow, and it is, but it will save you in the long run because you won't have to backtrack.

 

[BobG_in_VA]

I would go even slower than Highbeam.

1. Check with county to see what permits are necessary.

2. Strongly consider hiring a consultant to help you with permits, land use, etc. We bought 40 acres last year and the first thing we did was hire a consultant. $1500 and we suddenly had a retired county planner in our corner, who was plugged into the "old boy network". Two months later we had a site development permit and approval to build a house. Still needed building permits, well permits, septic permits, etc, but these were all just formalities.

3. Once you have a site approval, or whatever it is called locally, get a septic guy to go out & walk the property with you. Locate where the septic field will go, then where the house & driveway will go. That way, you can have a rough plan worked out before you clear anything.

This may sound frustratingly slow, and it is, but it will save you in the long run because you won't have to backtrack.

I think you're on to something here. I'm originally from that county (family has been there since about the 1600's (no joke). I've known the excavator since I was in grade school (he wanted to know how I retired at 55 and he was still working at 70....I told him, "Simple, you're doing stuff you like to do..."). I've known some of the folks on the Board of Supervisors since high school, and the folks at the planning commision are good as well. I'm going by and see them on Friday on the way "home" to my brother's (who still lives there). Thanks for the ideas, I'll keep y'all posted (that's VA talk for anyone that wants to listen). BobG in VA

 

[Captinjack]

I'm glad I don't have to get all those beauocratic permits to do what you want to do with your own property.

When I bought property 25 yrs. ago, I chose an area where you can do what you want!

We don't need no stinking permits in WV. Yeah, I know what you are thinking that the permitting process makes sure you do thing correctly, however, we can still do that without the permits and the $ for some poor slob in the county to tell you it's ok to do what's right anyway.

My place is so far back in that I have to import my own tomcat!

 

[Haoleguy]

BobG - I'm slightly ahead of you in time and stage. I cleared 6 acres of my 42 and a few paths to get a feel for where I want my house, barn, & roads. I have been in contact with: (1) town zoning official, (2) town building official, (3) fire district chief, and recently (4) town wetlands enforcement officer to make sure I follow process. I found out from the wetlands official that my survey from 1996 was current but the wetlands boundary(~18 acres) within the 42 acres was expired and needed to be recertified by a credentialed soil scientist. I'm now having the wetlands recertified(same soil scientist) and flagged where closest to my proposed new road. At the same time I'm getting perk tests(primary and secondary) for the house and barn locations. A survey map with wetlands boundaries, road location, buildings, perk test locations, a wetlands impact statement by the soil scientist, and a formal permitting form to the wetlands and zoning commissions. I expect approval within the month so I can start building the road. The approval is good for 5 years and can be renewed for an additional 5 years. In my town the home and septic design is only needed when you apply for the building permit. Be patient, communicate with town and/or county, and follow process. I do not see any issues with clearing some of your land as long as it is not near the wet area of your land.

 

[Highbeam]

"I do not see any issues with clearing some of your land as long as it is not near the wet area of your land."

First, figuring which is "wet" and which is a wetland is not easy at all since a wetland need only be wet within one foot of the surface to qualify as a wetland. Many areas which you might consider high and dry such as a hillside can certainly be classified as a wetland. Not only is the wetland protected but there is a buffer to the wetland that must be left alone as well.

Like Haoleguy did, the work with the agencies needs to be done when the road is still proposed and not after it is installed for best results.

 

[Skaning]

I'm sure you realize that the perk/septic permit is key. Reason they want to see the plans is to determine how big a leach field you need. x2 for the reserve.

Here in SE VA where getting land to perk in this tidewater area white clay is never an easy matter it's crucial, although what may happen is they will test and tell you how big a house you can put on the property. Since in a 10 ac parcel there may only be 1 or 2 areas that will perk, frequently that drives the siteing decision as well as access roads.

A few years back, I would say 10, Virginia was pretty hard over on only allowing conventional passive septic systems. The were not prone to be cooperative with alternative systems. That made the sanitarian pretty much the frontline in the permit process after zoning and if the sanitarian didn't want an area built up, he never had to look very deep to refuse to issue a permit. Then it simply didn't happen without one major expenditure of effort to overide him.

Today there are options available so that land that could never be developed under the old system has opened up at least with larger lots. Remember too, without an approved sanitary system permit, you can't get a permit for a well. Without both an approved well and a sanitary system permit, you can forget about Dominion Power (or whoever) bringing even temporary power to your site.

Get it done before you start knocking stuff down so you know you are knocking the right stuff down.

Skaning

 

[dmccarty]

Bob,

You should not need blueprints to get the septic permit. My county just requires a rough idea on the location of the house, septic tank/field, well, and driveway.

In my area find a perc site is very difficult. My neighbor has his perc site running alongside our common property line. You step on my side of the line and there is not a perc site on 30 acres that will cost less the 30k to install.

Before you spend a cent on clearing you need to find the perc sites and how good/bad they are. If the land does not perc you would be wasting you time and money to clear land for a house.

My county is real easy to work with. Just go talk to them and they should be able to hand you the paper work to fill out.

Later,
Dan

 

[BobG_in_VA]

Bob,

You should not need blueprints to get the septic permit. My county just requires a rough idea on the location of the house, septic tank/field, well, and driveway.

In my area find a perc site is very difficult. My neighbor has his perc site running alongside our common property line. You step on my side of the line and there is not a perc site on 30 acres that will cost less the 30k to install.

Before you spend a cent on clearing you need to find the perc sites and how good/bad they are. If the land does not perc you would be wasting you time and money to clear land for a house.

My county is real easy to work with. Just go talk to them and they should be able to hand you the paper work to fill out.

Later,
Dan

I met with the excavator yesterday and walked the property. You're right, I'm going to get the necessary perc before I have the D7 and TrackHoe come in and compact some soil. I shouldn't have a problem getting a perk there though. Bobby (excavator) said I could probably get a 2 acre pond done which will be wonderful and also serve as the "bridge" to the other side of the property as well (the filler spring is located so that I'd need a bridge to get to about 10 acres anyway). He uses a local engineer to get his permits for him now. I'm going to call the engineer on Monday and see if he'll take care of some details for me with the county (thanks for the idea guys on the consultant, its a good one...). I'll keep y'all advised. BobG in VA