kioti vs. kubota

[depratt_equip]

Does the money Deere pays to have tractors built by yanmar not go overseas? I doubt they are building tractors for free..... This is a global market now. Kioti is a solid product, take a look at them. Do sales from Kioti not support folks here in the US? I know they put food on my table and clothes on my back.. Do my business tax dollars not go to the state and city's? Can the state or local city I do business in not support me in turn, since I support them? I will guarantee you the money for the sale of deeres does not all stay here in the US, someone has to build them overseas and they want their money too....

 

[MadReferee]

I think you missed my point. Don't care where they are "assembled", the $money$ goes somewhere else. Toyota advertises that they build their trucks/cars here, but do you think the money stays? Again, most governmental agencies (Federal for sure) have to pay attention where and to whom the money is being sent. God Bless America. BobG in VA

Let's not be so hypocritical here.

Take a look at JD for example. They are taking a substantial portion of their profits that were sent back here to the USA and investing them overseas in new and upgraded manufacturing facilities. I believe that they are spending more of those profits overseas than they are here.

Now lets look at Kubota and some of the other "foreign" manufacturers. They are spending a substantial portion of their profits enlarging and expanding their manufacturing and distribution facilities right here in the USA.

Your logic about where the profits are actually going and where they are being spent is way off base.

 

[BobG_in_VA]

Let's not be so hypocritical here.

Take a look at JD for example. They are taking a substantial portion of their profits that were sent back here to the USA and investing them overseas in new and upgraded manufacturing facilities. I believe that they are spending more of those profits overseas than they are here.

Now lets look at Kubota and some of the other "foreign" manufacturers. They are spending a substantial portion of their profits enlarging and expanding their manufacturing and distribution facilities right here in the USA.

Your logic about where the profits are actually going and where they are being spent is way off base.

No arguement here about the US workers making a living, but.....Key word here is PROFITS. The Board of Directors make the decisions where the Deere Profits will go in order to make more profit for an American Comp. CAT is the same way as both are publically traded on the NYSE (I've been a shareholder of both...). All I wanted to project was the fact that TAXPAYERS MONEY is being spent. I for one want my personnal property, real estate, state, etc tax dollars to stay pretty much in the state/locality in which I live. I bet the orginal poster has by now gone back to his folks and hopefully requested if the items should be bid and not just give the $$ to the nearest tractor dealer. We can do what we please with our own money, but I think we all want to know that our tax $$ are wisely/procedurally correct and properly spent. BobG in VA, who spent over 30 years as a Contracting Officer for the Dept of Defense

 

[BTI]

Shop for a dealer not a brand.

I know of quite a few Kioti dealers that would support there tractor much better than some of the "big three".

BTI

 

[Noodlearm]

I think you missed my point. Don't care where they are "assembled", the $money$ goes somewhere else. Toyota advertises that they build their trucks/cars here, but do you think the money stays? Again, most governmental agencies (Federal for sure) have to pay attention where and to whom the money is being sent. God Bless America. BobG in VA

This is a point I argue all the time. "do you think the money stays?" If you want a piece of Toyotas profits, then buy there stock, the profits goes to the shareholders not the country of origin. Sure, Toyota corporate or any foreign based company may be paying taxes back to Japan at the corporate level but all those employees they employ here in the states are paying income taxes here. So when a company says they are building something here, I would much rather buy something form them rather they are foriegn based or not, at least they are employing US citizens.

 

[MadReferee]

No arguement here about the US workers making a living, but.....Key word here is PROFITS. The Board of Directors make the decisions where the Deere Profits will go in order to make more profit for an American Comp. CAT is the same way as both are publically traded on the NYSE (I've been a shareholder of both...).

You are right, for the most part, profits, after stock dividends, go where the BOD decides. In JD's case they are going to a foreign country to improve thier manufacturing capabilities, not to some place here in the USA.

BTW, Kubota (KUB) is traded on the NYSE too. For the last quarter ending 6/30, sales were up 13.2% from the same quarter last year while net income was up 17.7%.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Mad, please realize that John Deere used to be a domestic company in its marketing. It was never particularly strong in exports or even in selling its machines around the world. Over the past couple of decades that has finally changed and John Deere, which is obviously a dominant force here in the US is now awake on the global scene. And while it is behind some other global competitors like Case/New Holland and AGCO, it is growing its marketshares in South America, Europe and Asia. So it must invest in foreign plants.

But it is also bringing production here to the US.

To all those who think that all the CUTs John Deere sells are simply Yanmars, you are wrong. Yanmar and John Deere are parting ways slowly and more and more parts are being made here, assembled here, and the tractors, especially some of the newer models are increasingly American tractors.

Yes, legacy tractors like the 790, 990 are Yanmar contract machines but take a closer look at more and more of the newer models and you will see more and more American parts, assembly, etc.

 

[MadReferee]

OK Bob, but the poster was referring to where the profits are going. So in order to make their presence a stronger one in foreign countries JD is sending US company profits to foreign lands.

I am just trying to point out that in a global economy buying from a US based company does not always mean the profits will stay here.

 

[Keith_B]

Back to the original post....

I would put together a list of specs that I want the tractor to comply with and have each dealership bid out one of their models. Go with the low bid.

When buying for a school the resale value means nothing. The tractor will be used until such time when it is sold for surplus. Items that are sold as surplus never bring what the normal price on the street is for the area.

 

[Dargo]

Shop for a dealer not a brand.

It really doesn't have much to do with the original question, but I see the above statement here on TBN all the time and I literally laugh out loud each time. That is about the biggest joke I've ever heard. Sure, a reputable dealer is important, but the actual tractor is going to do the work, not the guy I bought my tractor from. Sorry, but I just do not buy the above statement even a little. I know a "good" dealer who imports crate Jinmas. Why doesn't everyone drive them??? Heck, he is a good dealer and the tractor is about as cheap as you'll find.

Sorry to have to sound harsh, but it's about the biggest joke I've ever heard when people here say (I assume with a straight face) that a dealer is more important than the tractor. If that was the case, absolutely NOBODY would EVER buy a used tractor from an individual no matter the price or brand because you are buying from someone who has no shop, no employees, no parts, and no interest in you after the sale; thus, nobody would EVER buy a used tractor from an individual now would they?!

 

[dieselsmoke1]

Dargo, there's room for everyone's opinions here. I can respect yours and will offer mine.

The guy you bought it from will have little or no impact. Whether or not the business you bought it from has a good reputation for fair and honest practices, a good looking service dept with mechanics that appear to be knowledgable, a proven track record of repairs done right the first time and a well stocked parts room will have a tremendous impact over time.

We all value things differently. There's an (insert color here) dealer (fine machines) a few miles from where I live. I didn't even shop there because of their reputation for customer service. I for one place a lot of value on the dealer and service.

 

[Dargo]

Dargo, there's room for everyone's opinions here. I can respect yours and will offer mine.

Thank you kindly, and likewise. Although I'm not offering any opinion on either the Kioti or Kubota, I still disagree with the "dealer means everything" statement completely. If that were true, Kioti would sell only about 1/10 of what they do now. Throughout the entire midwest area where I travel, every Kioti dealer is considerably smaller than the Kubota dealers. Would that fact make me automatically never consider a Kioti? No, absolutely not. The dealer plays a part in the selection process, but no where near the importance of the actual product itself. Again, I honestly think to say that it does is simply silly.

 

[roxynoodle]

Well, I think there's 2 kinds of people who buy tractors. One kind will go look at tractors, including used, buy one they feel good about and then take care of the problems him/herself. The only thing a dealer will be important for is a source for parts. The other kind is planning to have that tractor dealer supported. He/she does NOT want to make repairs or worry about the maintenence or worry about anything at all about it other than using it. A good dealer is important to this second set. I'm even going to venture to say that in the CUT market the second type of tractor owner is going to be the more common one. And, let's be honest, no matter what you buy a tractor is a big investment and especially when buying used people want to make sure they are going to get a decent machine. Whether you can afford to spend $20k or only $3k, for most people that is going to be a lot of money to part with. So, for many, a good dealer is the most important thing.

 

[machmeter62]

Dargo, I agree with your philosophy with dealerships, and I also use prudence in my purchases. I rely more on the quality of the tractor than the dealer anyway. I own several Kubotas, two Fords, and a John Deere. They were all purchased new. One of my Kubotas (L295DT) is approaching it's 30th birthday, and has never been to a shop because no repairs have been required. The only wrenching has been fluid changes and minor adjustments. The Fords have gone through two water pumps, which I replaced. The JD is too new yet!

 

[N80]

The OP never said whether the school he works at is private or public. If private, there may not be any constraints on who he buys from or bids with.

Also, when someone says 'dealer is everything' it might be an overstatement, but if the machines being considered are _generally_ comparable in specs, price and quality then the dealer (including parts, service, etc) should be a consideration.

I bought Kubota rather than Kioti because there is no Kioti dealer nearby and I live in a fairly populated area but still very few of the newer tractor companies have dealershisps around here. I bought Kubota rather than Deere only because the 0% finance deal expired at JD before it did at Kubota. Plus the JD 990 was partially made in Japan so the patriotic thing didn't really kick in. Both dealerships were nearby and excellent. I've bought implements from the JD dealership.

I think all of this type of thing has to enter the equation when trying to make a purchase.

 

[BTI]

Dargo-
With all due respect, He was asking about Kioti vs Kubota.
My post may have made it sound like I meant ANY dealer but it did not mean that.
I also should have said "dealer in the area".
It won't do much good for a school to have a unit that every part needs to come in from some far away location.

I stick with my Dealer not Brand guns.

If he wanted to know if they should buy a Jinma or a Kubota my answer would be different.

BTI

 

[Dargo]

Dargo-
With all due respect, He was asking about Kioti vs Kubota.
My post may have made it sound like I meant ANY dealer but it did not mean that.

I stick with my Dealer not Brand guns.

My apologies. It does look like my comment is aimed directly at you. That was not my actual intent. My intent was to point out how ridiculous it is in general to state in any way that the dealer is more important than the brand. You were just the last person to parrot that comment so I used your quote. But, I have to stick 100% to what I said; it is simply poor judgement to place the dealer above the product. I have a perfectly good example as well. In the mid 80's the best auto dealership with the best reputation in our area became the Yugo dealership. All of the fools who placed dealer over product bought crap and got burned, stranded, and screwed. That would be exactly the same with a tractor, no difference at all. Under no circumstances would I even remotely consider the dealer more important than the product. Doing so is just asking to get burned and would demonstrate poor judgement.

 

[BTI]

Yugo, I lump them in with Jinma.

As far as Mahindra,Kioti, Kubota, Deere, NH and all of the other brands that have been here more than a few years.
The dealer will be the dfference.

If you don't mind doing your own work or the school has a shop and doesn't mind waiting for parts.

Pick any product you like.

I know of 4 NH dealers that went out in this area......
Two Deere Dealers also.....
The area has gained a cople of Kioti dealers in the last 2 years.

It takes a more angles than just a Brand or a Dealer I guess.

In this day and age of takeovers and the like who knows what brand OR dealer will be here long term?

BTI

 

[Dargo]

BTI, I think we are getting to the same place but by different directions. Many people have traditionally used the 'go to best dealer only' as code for advice to avoid Kioti, Mahindra, Branson etc. For the most part, your Kioti, Mahindra etc. dealers are going to be far smaller than the big three dealers. Most people interpret the 'best dealer' as one that stocks a few dozen tractors, has a fully stocked parts department staffed with trained professionals, a large, multiple bay service department, staffed with several factory trained techs, and a customer satisfaction department that follows up on not only sales, but service work. By taking the 'best dealer' advice, you remove about 99% of the Kioti and Mahindra dealers, which I am saying is wrong. If people only chose their tractors by that criteria, nearly all of the "off brand" manufacturers would go bust because nobody would shop at their smaller dealers who do not stock a large parts selection, do not stock a large tractor selection, and do not have multiple factory trained techs who have special training in everything from heavy engine work, fuel injection work, transmission work, and hydraulic work.

Everybody has to start somewhere. Many of the small roadside shops that sell tractors along with yard ornaments will be out of business soon. However, if they stock a quality tractor that likely will not need repairs, why not put money back into your local community? If your new (pick the brand) tractor is under warranty and you need heavy work done, it may be a bit more inconvenient, but I'd bet the factory will steer you to how to get the repairs done. I don't think Kioti or Mahindra will leave a customer hanging and tell them that they have a warranty, but nobody will fix a problem.

I just take offense to the code (buy only big three) that is underlaying the pick the best dealer statements, and shop for the best dealer statements. Nobody will ever convince me that the quality, reliability and value of the product is less important than who will sell you the tractor. I'm actually quite surprised that some of the Kioti and Mahindra owners here are not chipping in and saying the same thing if they are satisfied with their tractors.

As I said, it sounds like we are going the same place, but just from different directions.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Thank you kindly, and likewise. Although I'm not offering any opinion on either the Kioti or Kubota, I still disagree with the "dealer means everything" statement completely. If that were true, Kioti would sell only about 1/10 of what they do now. Throughout the entire midwest area where I travel, every Kioti dealer is considerably smaller than the Kubota dealers. Would that fact make me automatically never consider a Kioti? No, absolutely not. The dealer plays a part in the selection process, but no where near the importance of the actual product itself. Again, I honestly think to say that it does is simply silly.

I'm gonna go for the fence-strattler of the year award here and say buying any sort of "major purchase" is a package deal. You buy the product itself, the dealer you buy from, as well as the manufacturer. That said, #1 importance would be THE PRODUCT. If it isn't up to standard, it doesn't matter how well the dealer treats you. #2 would be the manufacturer. They control the quality of the product as well as, HOPEFULLY, dictate the standards their dealers should live up to. #3, the dealer... Once the product is in your hands, it's his job to follow up on a big part of "the product". The warranty (see #2)

But without a decent tractor to begin with, all the rest is moot.