I dug around TBN the other day to see if there were any other issues with overheating on these. I found 3 other examples of them overheating very similar to the OP's. They were all having issues when mowing (PTO) for hours like the OP. It sounds like the tractor's PTO isn't designed to keep up with the rest of it's limits, for extended periods.
Mowing Kioti DK55 TRANS WAS BOILING HOT after bush hogging WHAT HAVE I DONE???
- Thread starter quadmaster50
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murphy1244
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I did find one just now http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/.../181882-dk55-problems-potential-purchase.html
LD1
Epic Contributor
If it truly was a kubota design, it wouldnt have failed :stirthepot: Unless they screwed something up when copying it.
Its no secret that I push my MX5100 pretty hard with a 8' hog. (not a 3000# one though). Engine temp gets pretty hot. Gotta keep the radiator clean as well as the HST cooler that is IN FRONT of the screen. But no part of the trans or rear end has ever been hot enough to boil. I'd think I'd notice that sitting right on top of all of that.
Its no secret that I push my MX5100 pretty hard with a 8' hog. (not a 3000# one though). Engine temp gets pretty hot. Gotta keep the radiator clean as well as the HST cooler that is IN FRONT of the screen. But no part of the trans or rear end has ever been hot enough to boil. I'd think I'd notice that sitting right on top of all of that.
ON84
Bronze Member
QuadMaster50: Thank you for this heads up. We have a 2007 DK45 and had planned to do a little PTO work next year with an 84 inch tiller. I'll keep an eye on the temperature of rear axle and the fluid level. I'm sorry this happened to you, but thank you for sharing this.
Ovrszd; Three things:
1) After reading most of the Kioti posts on TBN for the last 8 years, I think Murphy is a very intelligent valuable contributor here, with a great sense of humor. Certainly not a "Troll".
2) Clearly you know your technical stuff, so thank you for your posts.
3) Please thank your friend with the large "harvesting operation" (looks like corn) for helping to feed my family!
Ovrszd; Three things:
1) After reading most of the Kioti posts on TBN for the last 8 years, I think Murphy is a very intelligent valuable contributor here, with a great sense of humor. Certainly not a "Troll".
2) Clearly you know your technical stuff, so thank you for your posts.
3) Please thank your friend with the large "harvesting operation" (looks like corn) for helping to feed my family!
ovrszd
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Murph and I are very good friends. He is as far from a Troll as you can get. I was just teasing him because someone else called him a retarded troll. I can not defend him in regards to being retarded.
Luke'sScreenName
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Your calm courtesy is refreshing. Also very... Candian. (actually, now that I think about it, you should be admonished for perpetuating stereotypes
)
murphy1244
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Well alright Richard I may be a bit retarded at birth but I got better you know. I was a City slicker for a long time and I got better too. What was your friends bushel per acre?
JoelD
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crazy how flat some parts of the country are. Here in NH and Maine, 50 foot square is a large flat surface, and I can't go 6 inches down without hitting something hard!
In summary, I think the Kioti was trying to run an implement that was too much to handle. Likely the PTO clutch started to slip and generated crazy heat. Either way, If you work any machine hard enough and long enough, something will typically give.
I raced motocross for years, if you ride a bike WOT long enough in dusty enough conditions or in muddy conditions, a locked motor is inevitable. Seized more than one motor at Southwick, and i've seen the experts seize more than one motor in day.
Safe to say Yamaha, Kawasaki, Honda and Suzuki make stout motors, I've seen hem all fail.
I've owned Deere, Kubota and Kioti. My Kioti is built about as good as the Kubota and Deere. Honestly, I've owned nothing better than a Kubota, seems like you just can't kill them, at least not the old ones. But if I tried hard enough, I'm sure I could find a way.
My Kioti motor starts as easily and runs as strong and smooth as any Diesel I've owned. The Hydraulics are third party, at least hoe valve body. The tranny is smooth. My only complaint is the dual clutch for PTO, which in my case sticks a bit and I need to shut down machine to engage my snowblower or grind-city. I need to fix the adjustment. When fully depressed the blower stops, but there's still not full dissengement. My machine is fully gear.
My Kubota no such issues.
With all that said, I'd buy another Kioti without hesitation.
Joel
In summary, I think the Kioti was trying to run an implement that was too much to handle. Likely the PTO clutch started to slip and generated crazy heat. Either way, If you work any machine hard enough and long enough, something will typically give.
I raced motocross for years, if you ride a bike WOT long enough in dusty enough conditions or in muddy conditions, a locked motor is inevitable. Seized more than one motor at Southwick, and i've seen the experts seize more than one motor in day.
Safe to say Yamaha, Kawasaki, Honda and Suzuki make stout motors, I've seen hem all fail.
I've owned Deere, Kubota and Kioti. My Kioti is built about as good as the Kubota and Deere. Honestly, I've owned nothing better than a Kubota, seems like you just can't kill them, at least not the old ones. But if I tried hard enough, I'm sure I could find a way.
My Kioti motor starts as easily and runs as strong and smooth as any Diesel I've owned. The Hydraulics are third party, at least hoe valve body. The tranny is smooth. My only complaint is the dual clutch for PTO, which in my case sticks a bit and I need to shut down machine to engage my snowblower or grind-city. I need to fix the adjustment. When fully depressed the blower stops, but there's still not full dissengement. My machine is fully gear.
My Kubota no such issues.
With all that said, I'd buy another Kioti without hesitation.
Joel
DieselBound
Elite Member
Some fodder for thought (in case someone is traversing this thread looking for help):
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...5000-transmission-hydraulics-overheating.html
There's just not enough info on the OP's issue to perform proper forensics. As has been noted, this was a used machine (w/600 hrs) in which case who knows what could have gone on before the OP got it.
We know that the OP added fluid, but what was the initial level? Being over-filled can cause problems.
Is the tractor's PTO clutch able to be adjusted? Wondering if it had been improperly adjusted (by PO).
Did the OP get rid of this tractor? (I see there's no mention of it in his vitals.)
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...5000-transmission-hydraulics-overheating.html
There's just not enough info on the OP's issue to perform proper forensics. As has been noted, this was a used machine (w/600 hrs) in which case who knows what could have gone on before the OP got it.
We know that the OP added fluid, but what was the initial level? Being over-filled can cause problems.
Is the tractor's PTO clutch able to be adjusted? Wondering if it had been improperly adjusted (by PO).
Did the OP get rid of this tractor? (I see there's no mention of it in his vitals.)
ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
For those that don't know, DK models use a "wet" clutch stack to engage the PTO. If you have seen a motorcycle clutch pack or car auto transmission clutch stack, it's like that. The clutch is engaged by a hydraulic piston that gets a couple hundred psi from the power steering side of the hydraulic pump when the electrical PTO solenoid is powered. There are a couple different plumbing arrangements (reason I asked if it was a DK, DKs, or DKSE); one uses a modulator valve upstream of the PS circuit and the other uses a regulator downstream of the PS circuit. Clearly a lot of heat got dumped into the transmission, and probably not by conduction from the engine. The two likely ways to heat up that oil (and all that transmission metal) are deadheaded hydraulics and a slipping clutch. If that PTO clutch started slipping, a great deal of mechanical energy would become heat in the clutch pack which seems most likely considering the seals at the PTO clutch piston (and maybe others nearby) were destroyed. Also, once any of those seals leak substantially, the piston would lose pressure and allow even more slipping; a chain reaction. That's what I suspect happened here. But why? Was the clutch friction material contaminated with the wrong (old style) hydraulic fluid, which is not suitable for wet brakes or clutches? Were the clutch seals already compromised and leaky? Did the hydraulic system fail to provide sufficient pressure to the PTO clutch piston? Was the system simply overloaded? I guess we'll never know. But I'll never try to run a 3000 lb 8 ft mower behind my DK45s after reading this saga.
DieselBound
Elite Member
I'll second ovrszd's comment! Great post, ritcheyvs!
So, if I'm understanding this correctly, we're talking hydraulic fluid here. Should we expect there to be a cooler in this loop? Could there have been a clogged cooler? I know that lots of people overlook cleaning out their radiators fully (cleaning only the screens) and end up overheating. While the OP may not have overlooked something like this it's possible that the PO did (and compromised the system).
So, if I'm understanding this correctly, we're talking hydraulic fluid here. Should we expect there to be a cooler in this loop? Could there have been a clogged cooler? I know that lots of people overlook cleaning out their radiators fully (cleaning only the screens) and end up overheating. While the OP may not have overlooked something like this it's possible that the PO did (and compromised the system).
The OP said Kioti doesn't put a fluid cooler on this model.
DK35vince
Super Member
The DK HST models have a cooler I believe. I don't think any DK gear models had a hydraulic cooler.The OP said Kioti doesn't put a fluid cooler on this model.
P.S. Soybeans.
I noticed right away it was beans. Helped my brother in-law finish a few weeks ago... my best "down time" is helping him farm.
OP
quadmaster50
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Thanks for that, yes the tractor had near 600 hours when it got it, same as new, from the original owner that only used it for tinkering around the house. Never even mowed with it, It still had the factory PTO cap on the pto. It was completely serviced at 500 hours by a Kioti dealer in Indiana right before i got it at 57X hours..
The clutch was not slipping a bit when i shut it off, for sure no doubts about it... I would hit dirt and it would kill the engine instantly nearly...
I have indeed let a local dealer take it, They fixed it and sent it on its way to someone else, i have no idea who but i feel sorry for them
Good news is I've put 300 hours on my john deere with the same mower and a 17' bat wing! going good!
Thanks guys!
OP
quadmaster50
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Well not quite 300, It was used with 65XX hours on it( yes 6500, runs same as new) so i think I've put like 280 on it. Its a 200? john deere 5410 MFWD I used it for hire and have been working 10 hour days 5-6 days a week wile i have light and is not zero deg haha.
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