Mowing Kioti DK55 TRANS WAS BOILING HOT after bush hogging WHAT HAVE I DONE???

[quadmaster50]

Well, You went from a 5500# 55HP tractor to a 7000# 70HP tractor.

Seems like you fit the tool to the job! Good going.
The change likely had little to do with the paint color

I agree, That 20HP feels more like 50hp though.. crazy difference!
The Kioti DK55 had a carbon copy of a kubota 2.2L V2203, They dont have much bottom end power but its a really smooth motor. Great motor IMO..

 

[CalG]

That 5400 is only 2.9 liters capacity. I wonder how they got big engine performance from such capacity?

"There is no replacement for displacement"

 

[ovrszd]

Thank you for the very well written description of the problem. Clearly a design issue to me. Under built.

Glad you found a solution.

Thanks again for the update.

 

[ritcheyvs]

This is not an issue of butt hurt or Kioti fan-boys. It's just that many of us have machines with a similar (or identical) PTO configuration and we want to be aware of potential issues.

No doubt, quad was able to stress the PTO for longer times and with a higher load than the system could handle. He mentioned a 3000 lb mower, which blows my mind; my mowers are only about 600 lb and I never run at max load for more than a few hours. I guess he proved that a compact utility tractor has limits. I do have to wonder if quad's DK55 was 100% when he started or if the PTO was already compromised from prior abuse or improper hydro fluid. So I thank him for the data point and I hope his new machine suits his needs.

I don't question the duty cycle data in quad's last response.

But I think the alleged cause (heat from hydraulic bypass) is completely bogus. The heat caused by applying hydraulic pressure to the PTO clutch stack is the same at no load and max PTO load. This pressure comes from the smaller power steering pump (not the main hydraulic pump) and a modulator valve apportions this flow between the two clutch packs (PTO and 4WD) and the power steering. This is nothing like deadheading a rear remote. This modulator valve could fail and cause the observed problem, which is why I asked if the dealer performed any pressure tests. In my opinion the root cause was a slipping PTO clutch pack. That is the only thing that would melt the PTO piston seals without cooking every other seal in the transmission. Once the PTO piston seal starts to leak, that piston will lose pressure which allows more clutch slip, which creates more heat. which further damages the seal: chain reaction.

So if this is a design problem, the issue is that the PTO clutch can slip before it stalls the engine. Maybe that engine is too strong for the clutch? Or maybe there is another, yet unrevealed, root cause.

 

[ovrszd]

I agree. Should experience engine overload before PTO clutch slippage.

 

[buickanddeere]

What jabelding said plus low oil apply pressure to the Pto clutch pack.

 

[DieselBound]

I agree with ritcheyvs. One of the things that I found puzzling was the statement that the OP was carrying around extra fluid all the time and that he had to put in 1 qt of hydraulic fluid. There seems to be some pre-existing condition happening and that it is That condition (which I also agree was manifest in the PTO clutch) and that finally gave way here.

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

And the Kioti attack-pack swarms again.... :laughing:

 

[ritcheyvs]

I am curious about the kind of mower that overloaded the DK55 PTO clutches. In post #1 the OP mentions an 8 ft rotary mower. In post 19, he mentions a 3000 lb mower and bat-wing mower (maybe same?).

I don't anticipate running anything that large but it would be helpful to know how much attachment is too much. I suspect my DK45 PTO clutch is identical to his, so this isn't just idle curiosity.

As an aside, I don't see why trying to understand Kioti problems constitutes an attack pack. I think we agree that a healthy PTO clutch should be able to stall the engine before the clutch slips. I know my DK45 could shear the bush hog's shear pin before the PTO clutch slipped. We don't know if the OP's PTO was already compromised, if the basic DK55 design is flawed (as claimed in post 19) , or if the OP simply overloaded the system, perhaps by repeated, frequent, heavy load PTO engagement at high RPM. As owners, we have a dog in this hunt.

 

[ovrszd]

My stand is I lastly pay attention to brand. In this thread I've not given it a second thought.

 

[quadmaster50]

I wasted to address a few things, first, it had no problems to start with usually is only used lightly and was top notch condition!
As far as why would i carry extra fluid?? I have a farm,I carry extra fluid, fuel, pins, filters, tools...
mower is a 2700LB HD 8' mower with twin blades, pull behind, Sides are 1/2 metal.. rated for 4".
The PTO clutches NEVER slipped a day I used it ever, right down to the second I shut it off. If i got into dirt, even at full throttle it would kill engine before i could get my foot on the clutch.

I can't tell you anything other then my personal experience and what i have been told. Fact is, no more Kioti tractors for me.. They maybe good but with problems like this, i am not interested.

 

[ovrszd]

I wasted to address a few things, first, it had no problems to start with.. I have a farm, I carry extra fluid, fuel, pins, filters, tools...
Its a 2700LB HD 8' mower with twin blades, pull behind, Sides are 1/2 metal.. rated for 4"
The PTO clutches NEVER slipped a day I used it ever, right down to the second I shut it off.

I can't tell you anything other then my personal experience and what i have been told. Fact is, no more Kioti for me..

Thank you for the honesty.

 

[JoelD]

Tough to argue that a tractor should not be able to run full rated throttle for as long as you need when performing work. if too much then motor should stall.

My slip clutch only comes into play when WOT and I hit something.

Tranny should not heat up like that, particularly not gear.

if were me and I had the tractor I'd install an oil cooler, not sure that would solve problem?

Should be easy enough to install though,
Joel

 

[NC419N]

I wasted to address a few things, first, it had no problems to start with usually is only used lightly and was top notch condition!
As far as why would i carry extra fluid?? I have a farm,I carry extra fluid, fuel, pins, filters, tools...
mower is a 2700LB HD 8' mower with twin blades, pull behind, Sides are 1/2 metal.. rated for 4".
The PTO clutches NEVER slipped a day I used it ever, right down to the second I shut it off. If i got into dirt, even at full throttle it would kill engine before i could get my foot on the clutch.

I can't tell you anything other then my personal experience and what i have been told. Fact is, no more Kioti tractors for me.. They maybe good but with problems like this, i am not interested.

My only question's are. Was this the first time that the Tractor was used for the Application? And second why was there the need to go to a larger tractor if original tractor performed well before?? Just asking

 

[quadmaster50]

My only question's are. Was this the first time that the Tractor was used for the Application? And second why was there the need to go to a larger tractor if original tractor performed well before?? Just asking

As for the first part of your question, Yes it was the first time using this big mower on it. Normally use a 6' rough cut. Otherwise biggest thing has been on it was a 8'6" disk mower that it ran just fine for hours at a time.

Second part, well, I think its obvious that the original tractor ( Kioti DK55 ) didn't perform well, I went to a larger tractor for 2 main reasons.
1. being the Kioti is broken.
2. Kioti over heats heats badly wile attempting to run it.


My thoughts toward Kioti at this point, if Kioti are such a fantastic company and build such great tractors, why did they have to clone kubota's designs to build a tractor?
It may look like a Kubota and be a decent tractor, however, its not a Kubota and will never be!
Kinda like the 5hp Honda knock off engines. They sure do look like a Honda but they don't hold up like a Honda..

 

[DK35vince]

My thoughts toward Kioti at this point, if Kioti are such a fantastic company and build such great tractors, why did they have to clone kubota's designs to build a tractor?
It may look like a Kubota and be a decent tractor, however, its not a Kubota and will never be!
Kinda like the 5hp Honda knock off engines. They sure do look like a Honda but they don't hold up like a Honda..

Your opinion.
I've had a Kioti DK 35 for 15 years and it never gives me any problems.

 

[quadmaster50]

Your opinion.
I've had a Kioti DK 35 for 15 years and it never gives me any problems.

LOL, hows that a opinion? you suggesting its not a knock off kubota? The DK55 sure is... FACT

 

[murphy1244]

Kioti is a knock off from Kubota as a deere is a knock off to a Yanmar.

 

[ovrszd]

In this environment it's very common to see an owner use his tractor at a level unimaginable by others. It's also common for posters to claim no issues with theirs. Is it possible that maybe the usage and stress levels placed on the two tractors might be significantly different?? Every machine has it's limits. When reached is it the tractor's fault or the operator?? That question cannot be argued friends. This has been a great thread. A lot of information has been exchanged. I don't see any of it as brand bashing. You could change the first two words of this thread title to anything you want and the results would be the same. The machine failed. If you can show me a pic of the owner's manual page that says this tractor cannot be used to run this attachment, I will recant.

 

[quadmaster50]

Kioti is a knock off from Kubota as a deere is a knock off to a Yanmar.

Thats retarded.. :laughing::laughing: Back in the 2000's Yanmar BUILT the small tractors completely for john deere up to the 2001 deere 4100 and all small motors up to 35hp. The tractors were built to deere specs by yanmar.. The motors were deere spec, like i said to 32 or 35hp. ( pre 2002) after that deere built the tractors mainly in GA and Yanmar continued supplying motors for the larger frames even..
John Deere has never cloned ANY Yanmar motors EVER!! Yanmar builds one of the worlds best small diesels.

The Kioti DK55s engine is a CARBON COPY of a Kubota V2203, The only difference being the water pump, bell housing and flywheel, and they are stll interchangeable.
Same bore, same stroke, same injection pump, head, block, crank, pistons, manifolds on and on..... ( copy that is )

******
Only time Kubota had ANYTHING to do with Kioti was back in the mid 80s'. Kubota wanted to make a economy tractor, Kioti designed the sheet metal for it and trans ( ONLY ) and Kubota made the rest. It was sometime after this Kubota accused Kioti of stealing designs from them and cut all ties from Kioti. Kubota filed a lawsuit against Kioti for infringement as they were making near copys of the kubota again, this was worked out behind closed doors so no settlement amount or info is publicly available on it.