Kioti ... CK30 Predictions ...

[DAP]

Now that the "other" orange machines are enjoying a new status both on TBN and in a growing number of folk's barns ... I'm predicting that not too far in the distant future, the Kioti pricing tiers will inevitably follow suit. The laws of supply and demand almost assure it.

I haven't seen any price posting yet for instance on the new CK30 machines, a VERY popular CUT class, but I'd be willing to bet sooner rather than later, they won't be had for THAT MUCH less than a Kubota B2910, comparably equipped.

Kioti just might be the bandwagon to jump on early.

I'm guessin that a CK30 HST with loader MSRPs at ... say ...
16.5K USD.

Any other pricing predictions? Am I spot on? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[JimMc]

You have an advantage on us since you even live in the right color county /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[DAP]

I've been known to visit Green county here in NY state also. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[Charlie_in_TX]

Not a prediction just what I have seen while searching for a tractor in the 20hp range. First a disclaimer, your milage may vary.
The one Kioti dealer near me (over 50 miles away) has their 'low-low' price of $10500 for the CK20H
JD2210-which is lighter and slightly more power, is under $9000
JD4010-which is lighter and less power is $9040
JD4110-very comarible, is $12200
KubBX2230-(see 2210), is under $8500
KubB7510-(see 4110), was not itemized, included FEL and MMM for $13900, tractor should be about $10000
Mahindra2015-(made by Mitsubishi)specs out almost exactly like the CK20H, was not itemized, included FEL and MMM, is $12400, tractor should be around $8400

What does that mean? (remember, this is my opinion fron the info I gathered) In the Houston area the Kioti is already priced right with the big 3. The company I see they are most like/ in comp with they are priced over.

PS I ordered a Mahindra 2615 (26hp hydro) yesterday.

 

[DAP]

I was afraid of that. Seems like TX has perhaps more Kiotio owners based on roaming TBN but that may be misleading.

Plenty of dealers, including ones who frequent TBN are still spouting the "world class" tractor but with a price that easily beats the "big 3" stuff.

I know that regional pricing can have swings in terms of thousands concerning machines that start at 10K and climb.

More to the point I guess, is the supply and demand issue. The age and philosopy of Henry Ford is lost for the most part. His philosophy of building a lucrative business by providing an exceptional product that the everyday joe could afford and getting rich doing it is rare these days.

You can bet if companies like Kioti, who've been clawing and scratching to make a dent in the big 3 market share start moving a lot of units, they will not lower their pricing models as their unit sales increase. Can't fault that I guess.

Oh well, sometimes, ya get what ya pay for, but there's no guarantee. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I cant tell you how many times I've seen folks who actually believe that in all instances, the more you pay for something, the better it must be. Poppyrot.

 

[TBrown]

I stopped by a tractor dealer about 30 miles west of my home about a month ago, to look at the new Long HST's. Last summer I went there to look at Long Landtracs, and at the time they were listed on the Kioti website as a Kioti dealer, but they didn't have any Kioti's around. This time they had a CK20 parked prominently out front. Great looking machine, seemed to have a better fit & finish than the Long. Noone was around, so the next morning I gave them a call. The price they gave me over the phone was $13,800 for the tractor and loader.

I'd say that particular dealer has his Kioti's priced right with the big three.

 

[slowrev]

Kubota's started out being the cheap import "jap" tractor years ago. The price went up as they got more established in the USA.
Kioti will no doubt go the same way unless JD or Kubota buys them out /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[rtimgray]

Long ago in one of the threads about Kubota or Kioti being cheaper, a wise fella (and I forget who it was) said that Kioti had to be cheaper or else no one (or very few folks) would buy it....and he was pretty much right. With no other incentive, very few people would have gone the Kioti route if they could have purchased a big 3 tractor for the same or lesser price. Of course, pricing seems to vary greatly by region and models - the Kioti was cheaper than a comparable Kubota, about even with a Mahindra, and ridiculously cheaper than a JD (but I think our JD dealers in this area seem to gouge the CUT market, my opinion only). Other folks have gotten Kubotas, JDs or NH cheaper than what I paid for my Kioti - pricing really boils down to your local area, I think.

Now that Kioti is becoming more of a proven tractor brand, they can raise prices because they are now on more of even footing with the larger brands...it's sad, but true. I'm glad that I got mine when it was cheaper than the competitive models in my area, but it's gonna make it tougher for me to lay hands on that DK 65 in a few years.

As I've said several times before, I see no reason why Kioti should not be competitively priced with the major brands because the quality is there...they still do lack the years and years and years of proven performance and service (still less than 20 years in the US, but getting stronger everyday) and of course they have nowhere near the parts/service/dealer network of John Deere (does anybody?). I wish Kioti would stay cheaper, but it's probably not in the cards.

 

[JimMc]

I think the improvements in fit, finish, and amenities had more to do with the increase in pricing. The current Kubotas are a much more refined machine than the first ones brought into the US.

 

[KiotiJohn]

Charlie, you say the JD 2210 is lighter and slightly more powerful, but it's specs say it's 17.7 HP. The CK20 is 21 HP. The lift cap. on the 2210s "limited" cat. 1 3pt hitch is 770#, the CK20 is 1190#. The hydraulic flow is 5.5 for the 2210, and 7.76GPM for the Kioti. Tires are larger on the Kioti. Therefore the difference in the price. Not really a good comparison for the CK20 and not more powerful. I agree the pricing is going up, but it's somewhat left to the dealers as to what they want to discount the MSRP, I got my CK20 for $9985.00 as part of a package. Deere and Kubota were both around $2K more for comparable specs. Prices will go up. It's inevitable. One good reason to have a CK now, the resale will be getting better as the prices escalate! I think you'll like the Mahindra, nice machine. I would have bought one, but didn't like the dealer AT all. Thanks, John

 

[Cliff_Johns]

Just to be clear, the 2210 is 23HP. 17.7 at the PTO.
Cliff

 

[KiotiJohn]

<font color="#FF641A">Sorry Cliff Johns, you're right, I was on the wrong line. thanks, John</font>

 

[Charlie_in_TX]

( Charlie, you say the JD 2210 is lighter and slightly more powerful, but it's specs say it's 17.7 HP. The CK20 is 21 HP. The lift cap. on the 2210s "limited" cat. 1 3pt hitch is 770#, the CK20 is 1190#. The hydraulic flow is 5.5 for the 2210, and 7.76GPM for the Kioti. Tires are larger on the Kioti. Therefore the difference in the price. Not really a good comparison for the CK20 and not more powerful. I agree the pricing is going up, but it's somewhat left to the dealers as to what they want to discount the MSRP, I got my CK20 for $9985.00 as part of a package. Deere and Kubota were both around $2K more for comparable specs. Prices will go up. It's inevitable. One good reason to have a CK now, the resale will be getting better as the prices escalate! I think you'll like the Mahindra, nice machine. I would have bought one, but didn't like the dealer AT all. Thanks, John )

I notice you didn't say much about the Kiotis real compitition, the Mahindra 2015.

1. First from my research, Mahindra seems to have a larger dealer network than Kioti. There are 6 Mahindra dealers within 100mls of me, 3 kioti. I found similar results for Dallas, San Antonio and New Orleans.
2. It has near the same hp at 20,
3. similar weight at 1973,
4. similar tires at 23"dia/33"dia f/r,
5. same construction (cast iron instead of ladder frame),
6. a full cat 1 hitch,
7. similar loader capasity at 915#,
8. faster loader cycle times (all at 3.1s or less, from memory kioti is over 5s),
9. higher 3pt lift capasity at 1400#,
10. tighter turning at 7.2ft.
11. And locally anyway a far cheaper price.

 

[raynman]

Charlie_in_TX

Congratulations on your new tractor purchase /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Post some pictures when you get it home, that's if your not having to much fun riding on it. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[shoppintractors]

To clarify......

<font color="blue">6. a full cat 1 hitch, </font>
the CK20 has a full cat 1 hitch as well

<font color="blue"> 9. higher 3pt lift capasity at 1400#, </font>
Mahindra's numbers are misleading because the numbers they use are "at the lift point". Kioti's numbers are "24 inches aft of the lift point". So to make an apples to apples comparison (24" aft of the lift point) the breakdown is as follows:

...............CK20/2015........CK25/2615........CK30/3015

Kioti.............1109..................1764...............1764

Mahindra........980..................1653...............1653

Don

 

[Golfgar4]

Hey Don! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Cool new signature! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Charlie_in_TX]

I posted some in the Mahindra forum here Chuck's 2615 . I haven't gott'n to play on it much. I contracted the pool in the background. I am building a equipment room/toilet for it. Keeps me off the tractor and on my feet.

 

[Charlie_in_TX]

On point 6, you are right and that is what I was trying to say. I should have stated 'CK20 and 2015 have a full cat 1 hitch'. Sorry for the confusion.

On point 9, higher lift capacity, I will take you word for it. I have seen other missrepresentations (not just from Mahindra) of tractor specs while I was shopping. Mostly HP ratings, a given tractor may be rated at say 20 hp at 2700 rpm but the pto speed is 2500 rpm.

I have sence read in another post that the CK20 has a FEL capacity under 800# while the 2015 is near 1000#.

My point being there is little difference in the specs of the 2 tractors. The Kioti is maginally better than the Mahindra in one spec, the oposite in another. The dealer will make the difference. If the Mahandra dealer I bought from sold Kiotis, I would now have a Kioti(see bellow). The neares Kioti dealer is 70+ miles away, further than I considered reasonable.

PS I am glad my dealer doesn't sell Kiotis. It would kill me to wait for the CK25 to come out. I was loosing sleep during the shopping/ordering/delevery process that took a month or so. June would put so many grey hairs in my beard I would look like Grizzly Adams.

 

[shoppintractors]

<font color="blue"> On point 9, higher lift capacity, I will take you word for it. I have seen other missrepresentations (not just from Mahindra) of tractor specs while I was shopping. </font>

With the many people that read TBN and the number growing daily, I think it is important for specifications to be as accurate as possible. When I see ball park or misleading numbers posted (speaking in general terms, no one specifically) I do try to clarify them. Please don't take offense.

I should have posted the source of the Mahindra numbers in my first post. I had emailed Mahindra and the response was...

<font color="red"> Thank you for your interest in Mahindra tractors.

The lift capacities on our spec sheets is for total lift capacity at the lift point End of the lower link arms. The lift capacities at 24" behind the lift point per ASAE S349.1 are as follows:

2015--980 lbs.
2615--1653 lbs.
3015--1652 lbs.
</font>
(They must have rounded up on the 2615 and rounded down on the 3015. The weights "at the lift point" were identical.)

<font color="blue"> I have sence read in another post that the CK20 has a FEL capacity under 800# while the 2015 is near 1000#.
</font>
You were correct in your initial posting. 2015 is 915#. That is posted on the Mahindra web site. Kioti CK20 is 770# from the Kioti website. Both say, Lift capacity to full height @ the pivot pins. The loader specs are sometimes measured from different points also.

<font color="blue">My point being there is little difference in the specs of the 2 tractors. The Kioti is maginally better than the Mahindra in one spec, the oposite in another. </font>

Agreed. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Don

 

[KiotiJohn]

Charlie, I don't remember if I mentioned I looked at Mahindra and like the tractors, esp. the 15 series. I just couldn't get past the dealer who was really something bad. I never even got around to talking loaders, BHs etc. I had to go. They are really nice tractors and I think you made a good purchase. John