KAMA TS254C starter

[lakespirit]

I was trying to start it and the starter sounded like it was dragging and sort of ginding. Then I blew the main fuse. After I replaced the fuse, it just makes a click in the solenoid (I think). Any ideas?

 

[3RRL]

First thing I'd check is if the ground is proper and clean. Remove the bolt and grind the paint off so it's bare metal. Reconnect with a star washer so it bits into the steel. If you have a faulty connection that allows carbon build up, it could work then not. That causes a lot of resistance and a blown fuse.

 

[greg_g]

I was trying to start it and the starter sounded like it was dragging and sort of ginding. Then I blew the main fuse. After I replaced the fuse, it just makes a click in the solenoid (I think). Any ideas?

Fuses blow because of an electrical short. But if your replacement fuse didn't blow, the condition was apparently temporary. That can happen when the 12v leads to the starter and/or solenoid are loose. You can get a spark gap that jumps to ground.

Verifying battery ground is important to the entire electrical system. But specific to the starter circuit, tighten the three 12v connections at the starter and solenoid;
-battery to starter
-keyswitch to solenoid
-solenoid to fuse box.

Also inspect the insulation on all three. If it's worn/burned through, one could be periodically shorting out against some metal.

//greg//

 

[lakespirit]

I cleaned everything I could get to and tightened some connections. When trying to start, The starter is really dragging, but the fuse did not blow. We got a foot of new snow last night and it's pretty cold. I turned the ignition switch to warm the glow plugs and the fuse blew. I hfave the heater on the water line plugged in at the moment and a radiant heater pointed in the area of the starter. I will let things warm and try again in about 30 minutes or so. What next?

 

[greg_g]

OK. In a KAMA/TaiShan of your vintage, neither the glow plugs nor the starter solenoid are individually fused. Their only protection is the 30A system fuse. Have you considered that it was actually the glow plugs that blew the fuse the first time too? Have you performed resistance checks on them?

The matter of a "dragging " starter could simply be the result of a low battery charge state. Have you checked the voltage? the specific gravity?

//greg//

 

[lakespirit]

Greg,

I am a marginal backyard wrench at best. I do won a multi meter, but no clue how to do the resistance checks. I did have my trcuk and tractor's batteries connected at one point. My lights, horn, signals etc. seem to be as bright as ever. Since my last post, and the block heater, etc. I am now back to just one click when trying to start. Is it really a 30 amp on the fuse at the far right as you're sitting on the seat? I believe at one point I was told that is a 15 amp, which is what I have on there presently.

 

[3RRL]

For glow plugs, I believe a 30 amp is normal. At least that's what it is on my Jinma.
To check for a bad connection like a bad ground, using a voltmeter under "no load" is not necessarily an indication of well connected or grounder wires. You need to test the voltage while "under load" like when cranking or using the glow plugs. If your voltage then drops to near zero under load, you have a bad connection.
Greg is correct too that a low battery will cause the clicking.
Have you tried to jump across the starter motor yet to see if it cranks that way? Need to be sure your tractor is out of gear for safety sake, parking brake on etc.

 

[lakespirit]

I've got the charger on presently. Once I thaw out, I will give that a try.

 

[greg_g]

...no clue how to do the resistance checks.... ... Is it really a 30 amp on the fuse at the far right as you're sitting on the seat?

Mine's not here at the moment, so I am not sure about right and left. But I've got the wiring diagram. It shows 30A on one end, next to it is a 3A, the other three are 10A.

For accurate glow plug resistance testing, they should be removed, cleaned, and ohm'd out at room temperature (70F). But there's a field expedient test you can do on the tractor. Remove the buss bar (or jumper wires). Glow plug resistance should be under 2 ohms, so set the multimeter accordingly. Put one lead on the battery negative post, put the other lead on the exposed tip of one glow plug. Record the reading, and repeat for the other two plugs.

Glow plugs don't usually all go bad at the same time, usually it's only one. So what you're looking for is one plug that is way out of range from the other two. Ideally you're looking for good plugs in the 1.7 ohm vicinity.

//greg//

 

[lakespirit]

OK, here's the duh question of the day. And the glow plugs are located exactly .....?

 

[greg_g]

OK, here's the duh question of the day. And the glow plugs are located exactly .....?

Behind the intake manifold, above the fuel injectors. There are three of them, tied together electrically with either a copper buss bar or a series of jumper wires.

You might consider asking a mechanic friend to watch over your shoulder.

//greg//

 

[lakespirit]

I'm afraid I am on my own on this one. What is the risk of me doing this? I'm not completely lost, as long as I have help from good people like everyone on this site. Chip and a few others, perhaps even yourself, walked me through splitting the tractor and replacing the clutch. (it only took two tries to get the sucker right)

As I am looking at the engine from the drivers side of the business, There are three stainless braided hoses. Below them coming from the injector pump are three solid tubes. The only place I see anything resembling a buss bar is hooked on to the valve cover????

Could I be so bold as to ask for a diagram, please?

 

[3RRL]

This is a photo of my wife's 284 engine, which should be pretty close to what your engine looks like.
It is a view from the driver's side or left side of the tractor.



Remove the wire(s) to the glow plugs or buss bar.
Remove the thumbwheel nuts that hold the buss bar on.
The buss bar is the black strip that connects the glow plugs. This one has the covers slid back to expose it. I think it's brass or something?
The glow plugs can then be unscrewed and field tested like Greg described.

 

[lakespirit]

Thanks for the pic and diagram. If I find these to be under the 1.7 ohm are they available individually or must I get a set? Any idea what the cost of these little devils might be?

 

[bluechip]

When you just get one "click" form the starter, does the fuse blow? if so the fuse is probaly the reason for the one click (you can double the15 amp wire for further testing till you can get 30 amp wire on there). If you get one click when starting (and not blowing a fuse) it is a bad connection, usually the ground an on that tractor (and many others) it is where the cable runs from the negative side of the battery to the chassis ground. remove, scrape off paint if any in the connection area and rea attach. If you need glow plugs, we should have them but Im home now and don't have the pricing, they are not terribly expensive.

 

[greg_g]

If you were doing a bench test on these plugs, the 1.7v would be important. What you're looking for during this field test is a plug that is markedly different from the others. I used that figure simply so you'd have an idea of where to set the range on the multimeter

Cost isn't too bad, although I don't understand why Chinese glow plugs are so much more expensive than German. I just replaced all five in my Mercedes for $8.53 each, plus a small shipping charge. For some reason the Chinese plugs are 2 to 3 times that much. JMParts gets $14.25, CircleG gets an amazing $25. To be fair though, maybe that's for a set of three.

Don't put the cart in front of the horse though, you may not need any. We're only going through a process of elimination right now. But in a pinch, you can replace just one. But just like spark plugs, it's a good idea to change them all at the same time. Before I do that, I bench test several - and install a set that produce reasonably identical resistance.

//greg//

 

[lakespirit]

I cleaned everything, yet still get the one click. Can this be caused by a defective glow plug OR bad connection?

 

[greg_g]

I cleaned everything, yet still get the one click. Can this be caused by a defective glow plug OR bad connection?

No on the glow plug, yes on the connection. A clean but loose connection is still classified as a bad connection. The usual cause for this is where the lug is poorly crimped and/or badly soldered onto the wire. Another cause could be wire damage somewhere up the line.

But a low battery state will do the same thing over perfectly good wire. That's why I asked if you'd checked battery voltage and/or did a specific gravity check.

If you're still blowing fuses - and if you actually procede with the glow plug field test - there's a second step that I should have included. Once the resistance values for the three glow plugs are recorded, move the test lead from the negative battery post to the cylinder head. Find a clean spot where you're definitely touching bare metal. Scratch the metal with the tip if necessary. Then repeat the resistance test on the three glow plugs. Compare the six numbers. If you have a good battery ground, they should be the same. If they differ, you may need to do some more cleaning on the battery ground cable connections (both ends). If/when you confirm good battery ground AND the 1st/2nd readings still differ - that suggests the holes one or more of the glow plug receptacles might have dirty/rusty threads.

//greg//

 

[3RRL]

I experienced a very similar bad connection where it worked sometimes and then not. The lights came on etc., but the starter and solenoid would only "click". I even took the starter motor and solenoid to a mechanic and it checked out fine. What I thought was a good connection was NOT.
When my wife got her Jinma, the first thing I had her do was grind CLEAN the cable ground to the chassis with an angle grinder and re-connect using a start washer to bite in.