KAMA TS254C starter

[Ranch_Hand_Supp]

But if silicon dielectric is permitted to set up prior properly, it won't turn into a dirt magnet like grease.

//greg//

How long does is take to set up ??

Ronald
Ranch Hand Supply

 

[greg_g]

How long does is take to set up

In my experience, it depends upon the formulation; gel, grease, lubricant, compound, elastomer, etc. Some are formulated NOT to set up, others to form a skin. I've had some that stays tacky - like the kind you use on spark plug wires. I'm guessing that might be the grease formula. I've used others that form a skin. Might have been the gel - I don't remember. That took only about 15 minutes to cure, but I suspect curing time may be temperature dependent. I've never used a compound, but I suspect the fact that it comes in two containers is related to forming as skin as well.

Any/all obviously help prevent moisture intrusion, but for diesel tractor wiring I'd choose whichever type eventually skins over - so dust/dirt doesn't stick like it would using plain old dino grease.

//greg//

 

[3RRL]

Greg,
I had read somewhere that although it can be done, it's preferable NOT to put the dielectric grease between the contact points. Rather, keep the contact metal to metal, keep them clean, fit together, then apply the grease or spray over the connection. Some claim if put in between it could hamper conductivity since it is NOT conductive. Others claim there is still metal to metal contact since it gets displaced.

IMO, I would keep the connection clean and metal to metal, then coat it with the grease to keep moisture and oxygen out and keep the little nuts and bolts lubricated.

 

[Red55]

Most of the dielectric grease that I've use at work is for solidstate relays and the grease is used to transfer heat and is not conductive for electric. For conductivity we use DeoxIT D5 but you have to be careful because the acid will eat the connections if over done. What about that liquid tape that the electricans use (for wire connections) to seal the surface? -Ed

 

[greg_g]

Greg,
I had read somewhere that although it can be done, it's preferable NOT to put the dielectric grease between the contact points. Rather, keep the contact metal to metal, keep them clean, fit together, then apply the grease or spray over the connection. Some claim if put in between it could hamper conductivity since it is NOT conductive. Others claim there is still metal to metal contact since it gets displaced.

IMO, I would keep the connection clean and metal to metal, then coat it with the grease to keep moisture and oxygen out and keep the little nuts and bolts lubricated.

Nope. You want to keep air and moisture OFF the conducting surfaces. Rust is a poor conductor, and steel+water+air=rust.

Didn't you ever put dielectric grease in your spark plug boots? daub it on your outdoor coaxial connectors before screwing them together? ****, you've even got some in your computer. The CPU gets stuck down with dielectric grease. Of course, in that instance it's there to facilitate heat dissipation

Nuts/bolts/threads/clamps make or force electrical contact by parting the dielectric sufficiently to achieve metal on metal continuity, while at the same time protecting the surrounding surfaces from oxidation. If you don't somehow prevent air and water from getting between the battery ground cable lug and the tractor frame for example, it's gonna rust. Guaranteed.

//greg//

//greg//

 

[Brad_Blazer]

I like copper anti-seize.

"Permatex Copper Anti-Seize also
provides good electrical conductivity."
http://www.permatex.com/documents/tds/Automotive/09128.pdf

 

[Brad_Blazer]

Answer: 30 seconds

Question: How long after opening the anti-seize will some of it be on my face?

Actually Locktite makes it in a handy stick form that stays off my face for nearly a minute.

 

[greg_g]

I like copper anti-seize.

Interesting. Given the sensitivity of today's engine management systems, its dielectric property makes sense. I'm impressed that they must somehow render the copper content non-conductive.

Another silicon dielectric I left off the earlier list is the RTV formula, I remember using it to preserve shipboard antenna connections in the salt environment. The kind we used also cured to a clear but somewhat flexible skin. The downside was that it had to be removed/cleaned/replaced on a regular schedule though. Cable flexing and vibration in a salt environment is somewhat unique to shipboard cabling, a combination of effects that eventually compromises surface adhesion. The old RTV had to be stripped, the connections cleaned, new RTV applied. More often than not the connections were still clean and dry, but it was on the maintenance schedule - so we had to do it anyway.

That recollection brought to mind another primary property of the grease-type silicone dielectric grease; that is, to prevent spark loss in modern high voltage discharge ignitions. Moisture and dirt conducts electricity, electricity seeks the path of least resistance, all too often that path is through moisture and dirt. The grease formula of dielectric silicon displaces dirt and moisture in proximity to the conductors, thereby eliminating a conductive path that stray spark voltage could otherwise follow to ground. And since it's formulated not to harden - or even to skin over - the grease type can do this without causing the rubber boot to stick to the ceramic plug.

Relative to Jeff's starting problem, this further supports the use of a skin-type silicon dielectric to protect exposed tractor connections. The omnipresent dirt inherent to tractor work will not as readily adhere to a cured skin formula as readily as it will to a tacky grease formula. Minimize the dirt factor, and you give moisture no place to accumulate. Then once cured, the skin represents a semi-permanent non-conducting barrier for the inevitable dirt that does accumulate between cleanings. Insulation. Yet the skin type still permits enough flex to maintain adhesion (and insulation) in spite of normal cable/wire movement and vibration.

//greg//

 

[lakespirit]

The party isn't wuite over. Got her running for awhile, and now I am certain it's the solenoid. Anybody know how to fix one or get one for the starter motor???

 

[Dave_Lilly]

I'm not familiar with your particular starter/solenoid assembly but I have managed to fix automotive solenoids by taking them apart and reversing the contactor plate that makes contact across the battery/starter contacts. If it is a sealed one like Ford used to use you will have to replace the solenoid.
If you need a new solenoid I think Chip at Artrac may be able to help you.

 

[greg_g]

The party isn't wuite over. Got her running for awhile, and now I am certain it's the solenoid. Anybody know how to fix one or get one for the starter motor???

I don't believe fixing it is a viable option. Pretty sure you have the QD100C3 starter that I have on my TS354C. It's pretty standard on the Y85 series motors. You should have no trouble getting a solenoid from Chip, or from most Jinma dealers.

//greg//

 

[erj]

Spirit,
If you do decide to try to rework the solenoid, send me a PM with your Email address and I will send you pictures, etc of when I did mine.
Mine is on a Jinma 284 with a Y385 engine.
RonJ

 

[3RRL]

The party isn't wuite over. Got her running for awhile, and now I am certain it's the solenoid. Anybody know how to fix one or get one for the starter motor???

You can order a new one from Chip or Tommy or Ronald.
But I'm pretty sure yours comes apart and you can check it out.

When I cleaned my solenoid, I noticed on the front of the plunger there is a steel collar with a flat on it. The flat on the collar is to give the plunger clearance of travel when engaging the starter. There is some linkage attached to the plunger via a spring loaded button which hooks up to the starter motor....I should've taken pictures!!!!
Anyway, on the bottom of the clearance flat there was hobbing...an indication that the solenoid plunger was hitting the linkage instead of making full contact. So I ground away the hobbed area to give it proper clearance of travel for full contact. After cleaning and lubing it, put it back together.

One other thing, even if you get a good voltage reading, check it when you are actually starting the engine (with a load on it). If the voltage drops substantially at that point, there is still a problem somewhere...probably a bad ground. Every time it sparks a little due to the crummy connection, there's a good chance the connection is getting corroded more and more. Pretty soon it makes no connection at all.

 

[lakespirit]

I can't explain this, but she is up and running again. I took the solenoid apart and cleaned the contacts inside, replaced brushes on the starter, and it starts like the day I bought it. I don't know how long it'll last, but it's $75 - $300 I don't have to spend today.

 

[erj]

Good to hear that the problem is solved and how you did it.
RonJ

 

[greg_g]

That's more than I would have expected. I just Googled for "QD100C3 Solenoid", and the first one that came back was advertised for under $30. Having said that however, the solenoid was on a section of the dealer's website that doesn't appear to have been updated since last October 20th.

I've got a good QD100C3 on my spares shelf by the way, only 32 hours on it. Previous owner didn't believe in the 10 second cranking rule. It's like new now, only cost $65 to rebuild it in an area auto electric shop.

//greg//

 

[Dave_Lilly]

Glad to hear that a little shade tree mechanic work fixed your problem without repacing the solenoid or the starter.

 

[MossRoad]

MODERATOR's NOTE:

This thread has been pruned!

My apologies to the original poster and to any of you that may have had posts removed from this thread and not received a P.M. from me.

Please continue with the discussion.

 

[greg_g]

I don't believe fixing it is a viable option.

I should have qualified that statement Jeff - I don't believe fixing it is a viable long term option. As you soon realized the last time you took your starter apart, this particular success may be just as short-lived.

//greg//

 

[Dave_Lilly]

I can't explain this, but she is up and running again. I took the solenoid apart and cleaned the contacts inside, replaced brushes on the starter, and it starts like the day I bought it. I don't know how long it'll last, but it's $75 - $300 I don't have to spend today.

How many hours did your tractor have on it before you had this problem?