Just bought first tractor and got ripped off

[MossRoad]

You could also try salvage yards. Its worth a shot.

Used 2002 New Holland TC24D tractor parts - EQ-25498 | All States Ag Parts

 

[newbury]

OP -
Let us know how much it is leaking over time when it's not running - is it a slow drip, a drip every 5 seconds? Or is it a stream, a quart an hour?

Also what do you have for facilities? Do you have an empty heated/cooled 40x60 garage or will you have to fix it outside on muddy ground?

It's one thing to have a "project tractor" split inside, quite another to have it outside over the fall and winter.

good luck.

 

[LD1]

I agree that court would be a waste of time and money.

IT does appear to be brazed......and looks like a pretty good repair to me.

It was pretty crappy of the seller to not disclose this information, but after reading the first few pages, I was expecting some backyard hack job of a weld on there that looked like a bunch of bird droppings. But thats not the case here.

First and foremost.....you have to find out where it is leaking at. Is it just a pin hole or is it a crack? Looking at the pictures, Im inclined to think its just a pin hole leak.

And if thats the case....my choice of repair would be simple.....drill the pin hole out and tap for a 1/8" pipe plug.

 

[SimS]

I agree with LD1, that looks like a pretty decent weld/braze job. Since it is a low or no pressure leak I would try the JB/epoxy repair after cleaning the leaking area surgically spotless. Good luck.

SimS

 

[Midniteoyl]

What the seller says now, after you signed the AS IS, NO WARRANTY, BILL OF SALE, is not germane.

It is your tractor now, not his. Whatever he says now, you explicitly accepted tractor condition when you signed the Bill of Sale.


I agree with NEWBURY. Move on. Make it work as well as you are able. JB Weld is good stuff used on clean surfaces.

Every body always tries to say that an 'as is' sale means you, the buyer, are screwed no matter what, but this is not the case. There is such a thing as 'concealment' in the law, as in 'lying about, or failure to disclose, a known problem'.

Under the laws of all states in the country, the seller of a vehicle is required to disclose all material facts known about an item impacting desirability or price paid by a potential buyer. In this matter, if the seller knew of the problems with the tractor that the OP is now writing about and did not disclose such to him, and such problems were not readily visible, he may have a factual and legal basis to cancel the sale based upon said "concealment".

The problem for him is proving that the seller knew of the problems before the "as is" sale and did not disclose such before he took possession of the item and had the intent to defraud the buyer. He has text messages showing that the seller did indeed know about the problem before hand.

Again, selling something 'As Is' does NOT automatically protect you.

 

[Midniteoyl]

What the seller says now, after you signed the AS IS, NO WARRANTY, BILL OF SALE, is not germane.

It is your tractor now, not his. Whatever he says now, you explicitly accepted tractor condition when you signed the Bill of Sale.


I agree with NEWBURY. Move on. Make it work as well as you are able. JB Weld is good stuff used on clean surfaces.

A little fluid loss doesn't look so bad does it? The seller has no legal obligation to do anything since you signed a contract. You're wasting time and money in court.

Again, this is incorrect.. You may not actually get money out of him, but concealing a known defect prior to sale is against the law.

 

[Midniteoyl]

You could always try selling the tractor for the same price you paid or a loss equal to the cost to fix it.

He has to disclose the problem, so would take a loss..

 

[Midniteoyl]

Then I'm just passing the problem to someone else and putting someone else in the situation as me. My conscious won't allow me to do that.

Good for you..

 

[Midniteoyl]

Another thought is that the weld might be OK structurally and merely leaking at a place where only flux was present, that being the case cleaning and JB could be all that is needed.
From the pics I see it looks to me that it was brazed by torch and rod method indicating that it is cast iron and that a leak was only discovered after re assembled.
It is kinda hard to pressure test for leaks in something like a sump or case, a vessel is easy but not that part.
Possible the leak only showed up many hours after it was re assembled after vibration shook loose a flux blocked pocket.
Also how bad is the leak? maybe it is manageable.
Heck if it is small you could always do like with a hot water tank leak, (leather washer and screw, but I'd prefer drill and tapping) the advantage here being that no cleaning would be necessary.
Castings being porous by nature are extremely hard to clean thoroughly enough for JB weld or epoxies to bond.
In fact lack of thorough cleaning prior to welding (brazing I really think here) is probably what is causing leakage.

This right here.. The weld doesnt look like it was damaged. I would do as suggested before and thoroughly clean the entire area and chalk the entire weld and look for the leak. Could be a simple re-braze over that particular area(s) will do the trick. Doesnt have to be structural, just fill in the holes.

 

[fidowanttobe]

My brand of tractor has had issues with the bell housing breaking with FEL and/or BH use or abuse which prompted me to fab braces which carry some stress back to the rear axle rather than hanging all off the bell. While the weld repair does look good, if only to ease your mind, this might also be an option too after the leak fix. While I agree it's a sh**** deal, I have seen some awful looking repairs on old farm equipment that amazingly worked!
Don't give up hope.

 

[ruffdog]

When a private party wants you to sign a "as is" statement, get a mechanic to inspect the item or walk away.

 

[aczlan]

When a private party wants you to sign a "as is" statement, get a mechanic to inspect the item or walk away.

Any time I sell something, it says that its sold "As-Is-Where-Is" and it says that they are required to remove it from the premises right away.
Haven't had any complaints about it and I also use it when buying stuff for the farm.
I also put pictures of the item on the bill of sale, so there is no question about what is being sold.

Aaron Z

 

[Threepoint]

Every body always tries to say that an 'as is' sale means you, the buyer, are screwed no matter what, but this is not the case. There is such a thing as 'concealment' in the law, as in 'lying about, or failure to disclose, a known problem'.
[snip]

+1 on this. Selling a piece of equipment "As Is" and with "No Warranty" is not a defense against fraud. Also, statements made by the seller after the sale can absolutely be germane, because they may be probative of what he knew at the time of sale. Here we know that the seller affirmatively represented at the outset that the tractor was "in good condition". He also admits that he knew about the rewelding/brazing of the cracked housing prior to the sale and did not disclose it. We also know that the repair had been covered up with gasket maker and painted. If this appears to be recent, it allows an inference by a finder of fact that there was active concealment of a known material defect.

 

[jeff9366]

Caveat Emptor, Buyer Beware, is the common law principle.

In order to litigate this, it would start with a $4,000 attorney's retainer.

The Buyer could have the attorney juggle for awhile, but would not get anything except a supplemental closing invoice from the attorney. Buyer paid $8,000. Buyer has a tractor with some value.

The fact is, Buyer did not perform due diligence.

You can het and you can hut, but Buyer did not perform due diligence.

 

[LD1]

I agree that "IF" the information presented by the seller is accurate, then yes, the seller could be held liable for fraud. But prooving and collecting proves more hassle than its worth most times.

And what I mean by the "IF".......is yes, the OP has texts that proves the seller knew of the repair. But what we cannot prove at this moment......is weather the seller disclosed that information or not. And how to quantify if the repair significantly lowers the value......and being able to prove that the seller "though" it was significant.

For all we know, the seller could have verbally told the OP about the crack and repair. That is something that cannot be proven unless admitted in writing. A text of the seller saying something like " Oh I forgot to tell you about that". OTherwise the seller can simple say in court " I told him about that when he was looking the machine over" Then its sellers word against buyers.......and in that case, AS-IS will prevail.

It could also have been a repair that was made 10 years ago......and not been an issue since. Its a 14 year old tractor with a little oil drip, and a proper solid repair. Maybe the seller though it insignificant?

You have to PROVE that the seller intentionally tried to deceive the buyer, and PROVE that the seller though the damage/repair significantly effected the value, and you have to PROVE that the seller failed to tell (even verbally) the buyer of such repair.

ALL are very hard to prove, if not impossible based on the current information we have.

Now do I personally feel that the OP got deceived by the seller....absolutely. But my feeling/opinion doesnt matter in a court of law. It sucks.....but you have a steep uphill battle if you want to persue the matter in court and get a judgment in favor of the buyer

 

[Rock knocker]

In order to litigate this, it would have to start with a $4,000 attorney's retainer. Caveat Emptor, Buyer Beware, is the common law principle.

The Buyer could have the attorney juggle for awhile, but would not get anythings except a closing invoice from the attorney.

Why do you say that? I don't know about Fanning Springs, Gilchirst County, North-Central Florida, but almost the entire rest of the country has a thing called small claims court. For such a situation as this, that would be the appropriate place to sue.

 

[Rock knocker]

You have to PROVE that the seller intentionally tried to deceive the buyer, and PROVE that the seller though the damage/repair significantly effected the value, and you have to PROVE that the seller failed to tell (even verbally) the buyer of such repair.

ALL are very hard to prove, if not impossible based on the current information we have.

Unless the Judge reads the text message:thumbdown:

 

[SPYDERLK]

I'm just worried about the stress that area takes since the tractor has a front loader. The crack is about 4" behind the bell housing.

Do you see a crack in the weld? ... I dont in the pics. The leak may be just from some porosity within an otherwise strong fix. If so, you may just have a leak to stop. Forget JB weld either way. Nothing will give you enough strength, but if its just a leak look for oil tolerant sealers for tight porosity. -- Then do a clean up and fix in place. Do not use Brake Kleen because it leaves a difficult to remove residue in the metal that will degrade the adhesive as the casting warms up in use. Acetone or alcohol followed by thorough drying with a hair dryer will be much better.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Well, there are 2 things that can happen.. 3 if you count failing to prove anything.

IF the seller admits he 'forgot' or even didnt stress the problem hard enough (mumbled it..), he could be liable for repairs, or a partial refund to bring the price in line with the new value. As said, this is usually hard to prove unless you have documentation proving that you asked and the seller denied. In this case, the OP has the seller admitting 'he forgot to tell'. Thats a pretty big thing to 'forget'.

The other is IF you can prove, or the judge believes, that the seller intentionally misled the OP during the sale of the tractor in order to either sale something that an otherwise reasonable buyer would not have bought, or, to avoid having to sale the tractor at a lower price than other comparable tractors, then the OP could ask that ALL the monies involved be returned and the sale canceled. The judge also then can levy additional fines on top, depending on the law.

Of course, actually collecting on any rewards in your favor is a entirely different matter.

 

[roadhunter]

Unless the Judge reads the text message:thumbdown:

If only it were that simple.