JD or Kubota?

Bob_Young · Jan 7, 2005

"almost bullet proof" huh? OK, let's say that's true. How about rodent-proof and flame-proof; that too? I've seen too many dollars and too much time lost due to major electrical problems on high dollar machines that HAVE TO work.

A neighbor lost use of his big combine at the start of the harvest season due to mice destroying the wiring while the machine sat. Repairs cost several thousand, not counting downtime.

Same neigbor lost use of his NH8970 at the start of the spring plowing this year when a birds nest under the hood ignited and led to a fire that destroyed the wiring. The tractor itself suffered little more than blistered paint. To replace the wiring cost $14500...glad the guy had insurance. The 8970 isn't a sitter either; it sees daily use. I've got a fair amount of time in that one, awesome tractor.

I've gotta agree with btolle on this one. The benefits of electronics have to be carefully weighed against a very real liability. To me, the risk is worth taking only if the benefits are NEEDED. For my simple applications, electronic everything would be a major liability with little offsetting benefit. Of course your needs may differ.

It's worth asking how many old tractors like halfmoon2's MF135 would still be running today if they had been built with an electronics module that controls operation. I'd guess most would have been scrapped long ago due to being unrepairable. My old Ford 4000 fell victim to a major rodent attack a couple of years ago. They got everything behind the instrument panel. I was able to replace a wire or two and get the old girl chuggin' again. Maybe this year I'll get around to doing a proper repair. If that thing had been 'all electronic' it would be scrap iron now.
Bob

KiotiJohn · Jan 7, 2005

After the warranty is gone, then the electronics seem to know that. Now you're going to pay BIG bucks to get it fixed. John Deere pricing for parts? EXPENSIVE.
Of course, they'll be there to support you, but you'll pay big time for it. Less electronics for me too! After all, I bought a tractor so I could have fun USING it, not it doing everything for me. John

CurtC · Jan 7, 2005

(
Huh? You might feel that way, but in real life, they are almost bulletproof. I won't give mine up.
)

That wasn't the impression I got from the dealer who sells both orange and green, he said he 'had not been impressed' with the reliability of the electronics. I do take that with some grains of salt..

Dargo · Jan 7, 2005

Well, I've had "some" issues with both green and orange, but none of my issues have been with electronics. My issues on both have been with hydro components in either the 3 pt lift or the FEL. That being said, I don't think I'll ever buy a tractor without a 3 pt or a FEL. I really wonder what brand tractor would be the " most reliable " tractor? With cars, I've had people swear to me that a Lexus or Infinity vehicle will never break. Yet, whenever I've been in either one of those dealerships, their service department was still there; doing repairs in addition to maintenance. Anyone know of any place on the net that rates the reliability of tractors? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I sort of say these things tongue in cheek. Obviously anything mechanical can and will break, regardless of how well it is built. That is where all the talk about a good local dealer comes into play. Granted, some makes will consistantly break more often than others, but I wonder how this has changed over the last several years? Five years ago I would positively would have never even considered an "off brand" tractor, regardless of the price advantage. I've only owned big three tractors (and I've had at least one from each), but in the future I think it will only be prudent to consider some of the others such as Mahindra or Kioti. I may not buy one of them, but I'll at least give them real consideration and do some homework on each.

CurtC · Jan 7, 2005

( The famous "higher resale value" can bite you, especially if you are already looking to sell it in three years.)
JD resale value around here seems to be insanely high, judging by what few used tractors I've been able to find, and what the dealer was willing to give some friends for trade-in on a 4600.

( I don't know how big a difference in the loading capacity is so this might be off base but for 4 grand less the Kioti sure sounds like the best deal.)
Kubota: 72" bucket, 1870 lbs at pivot, 102" lift, times 3.3/2.2/2.1/1.3 (raise/lower/rollback/dump)
JD - 430 specs, 300cx is rated a few hundred pounds higher, but I haven't been able to locate the exact specs: 61", 1261 lbs, 101", 2.9/2.4/2.2/1.6
Kioti: 60", 1155 lbs, 92.5, 3.9/2.8/2.4/2.7

PTO Power, kubota/JD/Kioti: 24/27/23

4 grand is a big difference, but not so much that it's a no brainer, at least thus far.

Varmintmist · Jan 7, 2005

( then a good dealer with factory trained mechanics, readily available parts, and great factory support would be a must in my book. You aren't going to get that with the off brands like you will with JD. )

If you go to the JD forum, I think you will find that the Deere is running on their rep, not their current service. It has more to do with the dealer than the color. Seems there are plenty of problems with green tractors and dealers, just like everyone else. Seems like some of the "off" brands are kicking butt in customer service with real dealers, parts and factory support. Same argument was used against Kubota 20 years ago. Mahindra may be a "off" brand here, but in the rest of the world, they are the big league.

(
As far as price it depends on your dealer. I couldn't make a deal on a kubota at all. Deere dealers are way better priced in our area. Look at list price for both units and then see how good of a deal you are getting off of list for each one. )

That is regional. In this area there is a price, not a starting point on tractors. If you want the machine, then you pay the $$. Color doesnt matter.

I am pretty color blind as to tractors, not to money /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Dealer does IMHO make a big difference. That was another reason I went with Mahindra. The Kub dealer had a good rep for selling, not for maint. The first Deere dealer, well, lets say the impression was less than favorable. If He would have impressed me I probably wouldnt have looked at a "off "brand. I'm thankfull that he made me angry though. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif The second Deere dealer had the same machine, same price, no shop. That bothered me. The third Deere dealer was fantastic. Better price, real tractor shop, but far away and by that time I knew that I could get more machine for the money with a red one.

You buy what suits you, what will do the work you want, for the amount you are prepared to spend. Thats how it works. Any one you get that has a established presence in the US will be taken care of if you need it to be.

Bob_Skurka · Jan 7, 2005

PTO Power, kubota/JD/Kioti: 24/27/23 

Curt, please correct me if I am wrong, but I'm under the impression that the L3400 that is being considered in the original post to this thread has 29pto HP.

The PTO hp difference is easily enough to power much larger implements.

CurtC · Jan 7, 2005

(

PTO Power, kubota/JD/Kioti: 24/27/23 

Curt, please correct me if I am wrong, but I'm under the impression that the L3400 that is being considered in the original post to this thread has 29pto HP. )

Yes, to clarify, those numbers are for the 3130/4310/ck30 I've been noodling over.

cowboydoc · Jan 7, 2005

And Kioti parts aren't high priced??? Come on all tractor and auto parts are ridiculously priced.

KiotiJohn · Jan 7, 2005

( And Kioti parts aren't high priced??? Come on all tractor and auto parts are ridiculously priced. )
Kioti parts prices are among the lowest I've ever seen.
Example: a member on here stated he replaced his cooling fan blade for $11.00. Try that on a Deere.
PTO shaft was $35 for an early '90s model. Try that on a Deere
A Deere dealer here in Florida contacted my dealer to get parts for a Kioti he was repairing for someone as they had no close dealer. He was astonished at the low prices Dave gave him.
Yes, most parts are expensive everywhere, but Kioti parts are very reasonable, as usually are their filters etc. Of course, the dealer may be bumping them on occasion, but that's usual as well. John

Tom4310 · Jan 7, 2005

All you "electronics" bashers out there need to answer a few questions. Do you still drive an old car with old speedo, manual crank windows, AM radio, no auto-door locks? How about the TV you watch, does it have a remote, maybe HDTV? How about the DVD you watch or do you still use BETAMAX? Listen to CDs or 8 tracks and albums? Now let me see, are you typing your replies on the computer or are you typing on an old manual typewriter???

 John Deere Green 4310 with eHydro trans and loving it.

KiotiJohn · Jan 8, 2005

( All you "electronics" bashers out there need to answer a few questions. Do you still drive an old car with old speedo, manual crank windows, AM radio, no auto-door locks? How about the TV you watch, does it have a remote, maybe HDTV? How about the DVD you watch or do you still use BETAMAX? Listen to CDs or 8 tracks and albums? Now let me see, are you typing your replies on the computer or are you typing on an old manual typewriter??? )
What you've said notwithstanding, I've had all of those things, and have many of the new things, and have had troubles with all of them at some time or another. Is your post designed to insinuate that these things don't break down? That's not realistic at all.
I think what we're saying is: These extra electronic "gimmicks" are not necessary on a tractor, they're nice to have, but tractors do rough hard vibrating work that may lead to expensive problems down the road that can be avoided by not buying them to begin with. There are many things on modern equipement I could do without if given the option, but they come that way, no choice much of the time.
Apparently you've lived a charmed life and never have any electronics breakdowns! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif John

Tom4310 · Jan 8, 2005

Hey if you like older technology, buy a Chinese or Korean tractor. I personally like new technology so I bought the John Deere. It has a hydrostatic transmission and I am confident it will be around as long as my old Kubota was. Old technology isn't cheap either. I spent $500 on a 1979 Kubota B7100 clutch R&R and that was just parts. As far as rough treatment and electronics, I'm not buying your arguement. Rumbling around on fields through pot holes and over rocks isn't any rougher, on a tractor, than driving my new truck up our dirt road. My new truck is packed full of electronics and has survived quite well with worse treatment. It is ok that you like Kioti tractors and I am sure you are very happy with it. Trying to scare off potential John Deere owners with the fear of damaged electronics and high repair costs is not fair nor correct.

CurtC · Jan 8, 2005

( All you "electronics" bashers out there need to answer a few questions.)

Actually, I think not. It's common sense that the electronics are potential failure points, and confirmed to me by the _John Deere_ dealer. I didn't see anyone trying to "scare people away from John Deere", it's just something to consider.

widmn · Jan 8, 2005

Given all this, is the JD 790 or 990 series deemed to be more reliable than the "equivalent" JD 4000 series because of less "frills"???

45V · Jan 8, 2005

Electronics have been in use in heavy construction equipment for years. I don't think you will find a tougher proving ground. I borrowed a Deere 790 loader to move 1500cy of fill last month and was amazed at exactly how much was electronic. The only mechanical operator input was the steering wheel. Everything else was fly by wire. The productivity improvements were impressive. It seemed like the machine was able to anticipate every move and adapt accordingly.

Electronics have swept over the construction industry because they improve performance, safety and uptime. I think it's just a matter of time before even Walmart tractors come with fly by wire! Everything breaks, and there is an anecdote out there to prove or disprove anyones opinion./forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I happen to like mine. They haven't been trouble free, but after using them for a while I wouldn't want a tractor without them.

Personally, I hope conventional stuff stays around for a lot longer. In addition to making equipment more afforadble for those who don't care for the added features, it serves to keep the price of the high tech machines in check.

sneaky_pete · Jan 8, 2005

I have nothing against electronics and modern conveniences, but if you like to do your own mechanic work they sure can make it harder to diagnose and repair. There's something to said for simplicity - I could pretty nearly rebuild the engines on my Indian motorcycles at the side of the road with nothing but a roofing hatchet and a pair of vice grips. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif I suspect the same could be said of an old 8N and some other tractors.

cowboydoc · Jan 8, 2005

if you like to do your own mechanic work they sure can make it harder to diagnose and repair 

On the contrary. All of my newer JD equipment has self-diagnostics. I've saved hundreds of hours this way working on equipment. The Ford powerstrokes are this way as well.

Kyle_in_Tex · Jan 10, 2005

( I think what we're saying is: These extra electronic "gimmicks" are not necessary on a tractor, they're nice to have, but tractors do rough hard vibrating work that may lead to expensive problems down the road that can be avoided by not buying them to begin with.
Apparently you've lived a charmed life and never have any electronics breakdowns! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif John )

While I understand your argument, and in principle I do agree that the more complicated things are the harder they can be to repair....On the other hand,

Apparently, your brand does not offer these options???????

It is hard to explain how good these options are until you spend some serious seat time in a machine that has it and compare it to one that doesn't. "Motion match" is a great option that compliments a hydro tranny in ways you can't explain until you actually use it yourself.

rockyridgefarm · Jan 10, 2005

And whether you are a seasoned operator, or a weekend novice, LoadMatch boosts your efficiency with the loader so much, you never want to0 go back...

I guess the folks who are convinced its a sorry setup don't have it, and those that do; love it.