JD or Kubota?

[Dutch445]

WOW,
interesting arguments.
When I sold import cars (toyota), I had a lot of flack from certain family members that were apalled that I sold Japanese products, after our country had gone to war with Japan years ago. What they didn't understand was the investment Toyota had made in the US market by building factories to build cars and trucks for our market. Yes, all the parts in all of these cars came from all over the world. That is today's reality. Assembly in the US was better for Japanese companies because of high tarriffs paid to import vehicles from Japan. But, it was also better for the US because it created jobs and healthy competition. If it wasn't for competition, we wouldn't have the fine cars/tractors etc that we have today. Competition is what drives manufacturers to increase quality, lower production costs, improve model changeover times etc etc etc. In MHO, it's the quality and service that I recieve for my money that is important, not where it was made. I have never purchased just because it said it was made in USA. I have never not purchased because of that either. We all believe in getting the most for our money, we work hard to earn it, and if we experience problems with something we bought, we may not buy the same product again. But, that is what this country is about, freedom to chose.

/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[rockyridgefarm]

This guy has 9 posts, 5 are to bash a brand that he supposedly represents and should have insider info with... All nine gush about Kubota. So while he says a lotta dealers bleed green, he's gushin orange.

But, while it isn't popular with eveyone, Deere is a major advertiser on this site, supporting all our fun by helping pay the bills and keep the lights on. While I don't suggest we stifle real information just to keep a supporter happy; there is no sense in this shameless bashing.

I have a Deere and love to poke fun of my friends with Orasnge Blue or whatever color. Its just fun. If I had an orange one, I'd be poking green guys. But I think it is different when you make some or all of your living representing a company, are given insider information, and then go bashing them.

Assuming he IS in a Deere dealership. Nothing he has stated is anything more than Kubota Dealer would have access to, or for that matter, anyone doing a little digging on the internet.

Whether he is a Deere dealer choosing to bash his own product, or lying about being a Deere dealer, his comments cannot have much merit. If he is in a Deere dealership and has a beef with Deere, he should go to them, or drop them or move from his employer, or shut up if not willing to do any of those. If he isn't really in a Deere dealership, well, he is just lying.

Neither situation makes his comments reliable.

I hope that my comments are even handed, If the same things were happening by a supposed Kubota, or Jinma dealer, or whatever, they would still apply.

And finally, it sure is easy to forget the fantastic help we have received from reputable dealers here. I know, I personally have reveived help from far away dealers who have no hope of getting my business. And I have seen others get the same help. obrith has chosen to do some of that with a few kubota posts. I hope he keeps that up. Cause, this site is all about helping each other and having fun!

 

[ByronBob]

I wonder if we answered Halfmoon2 or is he just amazed at the trouble he started by accident?

 

[rtimgray]

Why would it be necessary for Orbith to have to love John Deere just because he works at a JD dealership? Several folks have suggested that if he doesn't agree with JD policy or dealership management, he should ship out. Why? There are lots of folks, myself included, that are overall satisfied with their jobs but there may be aspects of them that they dislike. Orbith likes Kubota and dislikes JD; simple as that. He has is own reasons. He might need to retain gainful employment to provide for a family and pay his bills, would like to blow off some steam but remain mostly anonymous - no big deal. Cheap therapy, perhaps?

I also understand why Orbith does not want to disclose his dealership name/location etc. It's obvious that it doesn't take long for stuff like this to disintegrate into personal attacks (already has), so why on earth would he want to open himself up for folks to email/call his employer and tell on him. If you don't like or agree with what the fella says, then just agree to disagree. As mentioned earlier, this discussion does seem to surface almost as much as "Does Kubota make Kioti" and "HST is better than gear". It will come up again, I'm sure.

 

[AndyClyde]

No problem with a guy having an opinion,but some of the stuff he was saying is totally untrue.

The guy is windy enough he could blow up an onion sack.

 

[Dargo]

I like them both and have stated so. Sometimes it seems like the arguement between a guy saying that he wouldn't own a Chevy but drives a GMC. I know they are not quite that similar, but I really think their quality is a toss up. As I've experienced with both, neither is immune to having problems though. I still feel that a JD or Kubota is less likely to have major problems over several other brands during ownership. Either way, both JD and Kubota have a great network of support available and it appears that once pressed, both manufacturers seem to want to help the customer and make things right.

 

[obrith]

Rocky - As I said, it doesn't matter whom I work for. I've represented both brands for over 8 years myself. I don't really feel the need to 'prove' that too you. And as I also said, I really wasn't looking for a flame war. I was simply giving my opinions. As for letting JD know about my issues... trust me I do. Every time I go to a dealer meeting of any sort I never let up. Usually I get lots of "oh yea's", "Thats a good points", and lots of face time with engineers and product support people. However, there is the occasional dealer or middle management who gives me dirty looks, ignores me, or tries to flame me. Usually I don't get far at all. I can only hope that the young engineers and product support people from back east whom chat with me for most of the show listen enough to get something productive done... For some reason when I talk to my local representatives within the company nothing <bad> reaches the ears of those who have any real bearing on what happens. The only person who seems to care that actually represents me within the company is my local salesman who usually comes up and congratulates me after the meetings, even after I get in a huge argument with his boss. And as for your other suggestions, I do usually like my job, and if JD keeps up the pressure, they will go.

My biggest problem with JD is not their product. Its that their poo doesn't stink.

rtimgrey - Thank you, that is more or less exactly how I feel. There is no need for me to disclose my dealership, and I made every effort to keep my posts from changing from personal opinion/experience to flame as I could.

And for the record, I have no issues with non-US made products (to some degree anyhow); I drive a Toyota truck.

Anyhow, back to work...

 

[cowboydoc]

I agree with Andy. It's one thing to have an opinion but when the members here know more about Deere than he does I smell a rat. He didn't even know that the transmissions that were recalled were NOT because they failed at all. It was because the mfwd was made like every other big mfwd to have the wheels locked. This caused scuffing and people mowing their lawn didn't like that. Understandable. Deere put out parts to change that. It was not a failure or safety issue of any kind. My tractor still has the original transmission and it's one of the reasons I still have it. 4 wheels spinning is much better than 2 or 3.

 

[cowboydoc]

<font color="red">As for letting JD know about my issues... trust me I do. Every time I go to a dealer meeting of any sort I never let up. Usually I get lots of "oh yea's", "Thats a good points", and lots of face time with engineers and product support people. </font>

You now it's really funny obrith. I've brought a number of issues with Deere and they've all been handled and changed. Four improvements on the 6415 were made last year that were a direct result of testing and working with me on my 6415 alone. Deere has sent engineers to my place, my neighbors place, and other people I know. If there's a problem they look to fix it. Really funny they pay attention and fix all these problems when a consumer talks about it but they don't listen at all when you say something. Really funny my salesman at the dealer comments about how great deere is to work with and get things fixed for the customer but yet you just get flamed. hmmm. Really funny that Deere has district and regional representatives that step up and fix problems day after day yet you have no knowledge of that. Yea you're a deere dealer alright. You've got great insight don't you.

 

[rtimgray]

First of all, an apology to Obrith - I misspelled your name (frequently) in my previous post. Sorry for the lack of attention to detail - no harm was intended.

Secondly - Richard, can you honestly, in your heart, believe that the John Deere corporation will act on every single comment that is made about the function/quality/etc of their equipment. You know as well as I do that most of the comments that would be brought up from folks are as useful as 80 grit sandpaper in an outhouse. I would suggest that you are an exception, rather than a rule. Can you even imagine if a company tried to respond to every single request that was directed at it? Tractors would cost 4 times as much just from having to have the staff to reply to the shear volume of incoming mail. You are obviously treated extremely well by JD and have a fierce loyalty to them, as would I if I were in your shoes. I have never known of any other tractor owner of any brand tractor any where in the country that has gotten such phenominal pricing and service for so many years (although I am certain you do). This is obviously because JD values not only your business but your expertise in improving their tractors technology.

Of course, I'm not certain that I believe anything you say about John Deere, because I have no way of knowing that you even own or have even seen a John Deere (although it does appear that you know they are at least green and yellow). As far as I know, you live in a high rise apartment in Hong Kong. But this thread, once again, appears to carry on the tractorbynet.com tradition of "If you don't agree with what a guy says, resort to personal attacks, call them a liar, a troll, an evil genious bent on ruling the world, etc.". There is no way for any of us to prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, our tractor credentials. It's better if we can rise above petty name calling when possible...

...then again, I can always learn new names.


Once again, sorry for the misspelling of your name, Obrith.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

</font><font color="blueclass=small">( As far as I know, you live in a high rise apartment in Hong Kong. But this thread, once again, appears to carry on the tractorbynet.com tradition of

There is no way for any of us to prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, our tractor credentials. It's better if we can rise above petty name calling when possible...)

You can start by at least partially filling out your personal info. You don't have to put your social security numbers or driver's license or email address although many do. Some post their own websites. This tells us the person is somewhat legitimate. All too often, someone like Obirth, comes on the board all bent towards one brand or another. Some get humor out of stirring the pot. Look at the sum of all his posts. If he chooses to remain nameless, I can choose to ignore his "wisdom" (or lies) depending on which side of the fence. I choose the side of a poster with over 5000 posts/contributions vs. someone who won't even tell us where they live.
So, unless you fill out your info, your posts have no backbone to me.

Kyle (in Giddings Texas)

 

[cowboydoc]

First of all I've not only heard of people on this board getting the exact same pricing they get better than I do! The AQHA plan will get you the same or better pricing than I do. Deere has 10 different plans that I know of with corporate ties that will get you 20-30% off of list. Monsanto employees for one buy at Deere cost. Deere employs hundreds of thousands of people in this area and they all get factory pricing as well.

As far as service I got this kind of service before I owned anything more than my 4600 from them. I am by no means even a big-time rancher. I have neighbors that have 10X the amount of equipment and money in equipment that I do. Your statement is ridiculous that I'm the only one in all of John Deere that gets good service. There have been at least 10 other guys on this board that have gotten a regional manager involved and gotten satisfactory results from the process. I know at least 10 because I helped them all get in touch with the right people.

Does Deere listen to everyone? Of course they don't implement every idea that someone comes up with. I went to Deere with a problem. They sent a regional rep out to my place to look at the problems. They agreed there was a problem and worked with me to fix the problem. Deere is a dang multi-billion dollar company. You really think my few pieces of equipment qualifies me as some sort of bigshot? HECK NO. I'm just a little guy. But they listen, they fix problems, and that's just the facts whether you like it or not.

As far as what I own. Give me your home address, your home phone #, and I'll call you up and give you directions to my house. You are welcome to come over anytime and see what I have. You are welcome to go to my dealer with me and talk to them about what they've done and where I rank on the $ spent category. I'll put my money where my mouth is unlike other people here. I'm not afraid to prove who I am.

Thanks Kyle. You're also welcome anytime but as a friend. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[rtimgray]

So, unless you fill out your info, your posts have no backbone to me.

Oh no, I don't have your undying faith and approval...how will I ever recover.

I guess when I, or anyone else, fills out their profile, the Tractorbynet.com truth detector springs into action so that will automatically add value to my comments. If you blindly place your faith in the information that folks post in their profiles, then I have some oceanfront property in Arizona that I'm looking to part with quite cheaply.

I've never really understood the profile thing. I think most folks like to fill them out because everybody likes to talk about themselves, and would like to think that other people are really interested in what is in the profiles. If you feel it adds value for a poster to fill out a profile, that is fantastic. If I post a question, I will post all pertinent information in my post and not rely on folks to check out my profile to get the whole story. Nor am I secretive about my location, equipment, occupations, etc....Junkman once did an astounding study on me that probably took about 2 minutes and came up with all sorts of information. All that I'm saying, just because you claim to be something or have something in a profile is not going to carry any weight unless someone chooses to believe it.

As mentioned before, its quite obvious why a fella wouldn't want to post too much information, because if you happen to have a different opinion or post wrong information (for all we know, Obrith was merely mistaken in his information given about JD and not malicious, but folks automatically assume that he is out to deface JD). If you've only got a few posts and say anything bad about a brand, you're automatically labelled by the Tractorbynet elders as a troll or liar or worse. There was the fella that had problems with a radiator hose on his Kubota MX5000 that was pratically stoned off the board; another that had problems with a Kubota backhoe and he was viewed to be a troublemaker by a lot of folks.

If you choose to believe what a person posts based on number of posts or their profile, that is your business. I choose to base my belief on the content of the post and draw my conclusions from there. I honestly don't know if Obrith is telling the truth or not, but, as stated earlier, this thread is following the standard M.O. for many tractorbynet threads when a new guy posts conflicting information/opinions about a particular brand. With any luck, we can get this thread closed or possibly deleted, then maybe some of you guys can try to start a new thread just to pick on someone again....but then again, that's been done before too.

 

[rtimgray]

Thanks, Richard, for dispelling all of my doubts about your credentials. The very next time I am travelling through Iowa or Idaho I'll swing by...

"I'll put my money where my mouth is unlike other people here. I'm not afraid to prove who I am."

...better yet, just post all of your directions, locations, etc. right here and now, so that way you won't have to prove anything to anyone ever again, just direct them to this thread so they can check you out for themselves. Be sure to include home phone, cell phones, all the addresses and landmarks. That would shut me up for sure.

 

[cowboydoc]

Just go to my website. All of my information is already posted right there. I guess we can expect you to shut up now.

 

[rtimgray]

"I guess we can expect you to shut up now."


Well, I guess it didn't shut me up after all.

....it answered all my questions about your credibility regarding horses....but this is tractorbynet, not horsebynet.

That excellent site about horses really made me affirm your undying knowledge of tractors.

You know, Richard, I honestly have never really doubted your claims and your knowledge about tractors. I'm sure that you are quite competent and capable around farm equipment. But it's pretty obvious that you don't like your accumen being called into question - so why would anybody else, especially a new guy to the board. Why would he want to have to prove himself to a bunch of detractors who are so readily apt to dismiss anything he says anyway. He could have pointed you guys to a website, just like you did for me, and you could have dismissed his attempt at credibility in the very same fashion that I dismissed yours. The fact of the matter is, any of us who really wanted to could create some semblance of evidence to back ourselves. Obrith's case is that it seems like a real possibility that some folks would want to call and harass him or his employer - that wouldn't help him at all. Of course, Obrith could be a pot-stirring troll, and doing a fine job of it.

 

[cowboydoc]

Have a nice day Tim.

 

[rtimgray]

And you have a good one as well.

 

[slowzuki]

I thought the recall was related to castings failing in the JD TLB the 110 or whatever it is called? Not trying to start anything but would JD really recall a 4wd to turn it into an AWD? All the other CUT's are 4wd, why would anyone expect different?

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( He didn't even know that the transmissions that were recalled were NOT because they failed at all. )</font>

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
If you choose to believe what a person posts based on number of posts or their profile, that is your business. I choose to base my belief on the content of the post and draw my conclusions from there. I honestly don't know if Obrith is telling the truth or not, but, as stated earlier, this thread is following the standard M.O. for many tractorbynet threads when a new guy posts conflicting information/opinions about a particular brand. With any luck, we can get this thread closed or possibly deleted, then maybe some of you guys can try to start a new thread just to pick on someone again....but then again, that's been done before too. )</font>

I obviously realized that Obirth did not know what he was talking about from his 1st post on this thread...So, what about the lurkers and newbies reading unsubstantiated crap. I guess they need to go by something if they have any horse sense (pun intended) to them. What should it be then, someone who has a history backed up by years of posts, or some no name. This is not a personal attack. This is my view which I believe is probably followed by many of the major players on this site.

So Happy Its Thursday,
Kyle