JD 5210 valve lash & injector service/testing

[the old grind]

My 'mad toy' this year is a '99 JD 5210 2WD that's in pretty good shape o'all but runs a bit lumpy to my ear. It's my fourth 3 cyl (not counting the old crane's GMC 3-53) and doesn't seem to be running evenly on all 3. Not horrible or scary, just not as smooth as I'm used to.

Meter hours (digital) are low if it's to be believed, but I won't be happy 'til I've checked the valve lash and injectors. All I'd need is the spec for the lash if there's nothing funny to getting the cover off & at 'em, but injectors would have to be pulled and tested before I'm satisfied that I've done all I could. (anything tricky to getting them out?)

Interestingly, new injectors seem to be half the cost of those for my cars (Buick 3800s in Chevies) and I wonder if I could have the OEMs tested for <$40 per, so just replacing them could be an option and a matter of being confident that new would be in spec OOB.

I'm no stranger to engine service, rebuilding, etc, and with a good service manual (OEM, I&T, etc) I'd tackle anything, but I'd like to check this stuff while shopping for one that doesn't cost more that a some 3PT attachments. Do I need much help or advice thus far, or is my usual over-caution making this look more complicated than it really is? (expect me to test compression before & after lashing if adjustment is needed ...)

Thanks in advance for all comments! tog

 

[JD5210]

Here are some URLs. Check out selectmanuals.com for tech manuals $35.00. I have included a link to the engine manual. Would check to see how much free play adjustment is left on the clutch. Post a picture of the instrument cluster and I can tell you if it looks like the original.


Operators manual
http://manuals.deere.com/omview/OMRE71736_19/

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Transmission Creep : Tractor ?creeps? forward with gear lever in neutral
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Model Year of 5000 Series Tractors : What year was my 5000 series tractor built?
Bent Cylinder Rods : Follow these simple steps to prevent bending hydraulic cylinder rods
Front End Noise : Gear backlash causes noise on 5000 series tractors

This is a John Deere manual on the engine.
http://www.visaevolution.com/dati_sito/manuali/officina/motori/john deere/ctm125-3029-ENG.pdf

 

[Zebrafive]

The Tech manual for the 3 cyl engine is CTM125. I would not get an I&T manual.
Have you checked the air filter and fuel filter?
For my JD 2030 valve lash is 0.014 Intake and 0.018 Exhaust. No idea if yours will be the same.

 

[the old grind]

Thanks, fellas! I did some googling, found the same lash specs and some parts diagrams that make the job look typically simple. There's an injector service outfit with a good rep near here and I'll call Monday to see what their cost would be compared to the ~$60 per I'm seeing for new injectors. I'd rather have any of them checked out & may be looking at a detail that isn't so big, but there's a lot I want to look over while I'm waiting for a loader mount kit for the Allied 495 (not 495S, but ok per Buhler/Farm King).

btw: turns out the Powertech 2.9 is highly regarded, popular for generator use, and offered in a variety of turbo and NA versions with varying hp which leaves mine at the bottom (mild) end of its o'all adaptation. I'll do the usual checks, and among the first is to see what the coolant looks like, whether JD additive is indicated (just in case).

As for the cluster, panel face is sun-warped and the tach needle contacts it at ~1500 rpm position so I'll have plenty to tinker with as I check out the harness & get various lighting stuff going 100%. Last number is different color as in 10ths, but seems to show whole hours after about one of run time and only moving from 1787 to 1788. confused3:, but <2k hrs still sounds good) Haven't stumbled onto issues or even mention of the semi-digital dash. It does the 'bzzt-click' thing that some cars do, with gauges pegging and lights flashing briefly before settling.

'Likes' about this tractor already: size/maneuverability with this 'short' Deere's wheelbase (despite jumbo FEL to be fitted), great starting (warm weather-only use planned), ergonomics, a loader stick to use SCAs 1 & 2 w/float & regen for lift & curl (& in addition to what came with the FEL), 11 gpm/2800 psi OC hydraulics (independent of power steering), and nary a weep or drip apparent in ~1hr run time. SSQA pin-on adapter coming for the Allied, and the 84" bucket will be the least one used considering how awkwardly forward the loader/bucket will sit/balance.

 

[JD5210]

Have you looked at JDparts.com, on the left is a parts catalog with some good pictures. If your cluster looks like the one in the YouTube, it is not the original. Here is a wiring diagram. The engine link I earlier provided is the ctm125 manual. A lot of JD tractors use that engine JD 5X00, 5210, 5310, 5220, 5320, 5203 and 5303. Also current models 5045, 5055 and 5065, these are the E/D.

Keep use posted how things go. Engine part # RE503242 thermistor sensor is the only problem I have read on this site.

new tractor john deere 5410 - YouTube

 

[the old grind]

Thanks again! The schematics are great, and something I hadn't found elsewhere yet. I did find a parts manual for generator versions, and much is the same regarding internal parts/#s. Didn't see a thermistor anywhere else so must assume its the coolant temp sender.

Don't know what to think about that cluster, my '99's being the same as is on the Youtuber's '98. O'all wear & tear suggests more than the 170-some hrs, and I suspected it might not be orig for that reason. btw, his seems to 'knock' uniformly on all three, where mine sounds a bit uneven by comparison. Otherwise everything does seem somewhat tight or fresh. Levers, linkages, etc don't leak or show much play. Clutch adjustment is to spec as it sits.

The tach doesn't seem to read right (a feeling/sound not yet quantified) and I wonder if the hour meter is a rev counting type vs a timer. They both seem linked to the engine speed sensor and I'll have some calibrating to do with a separate digital tach, maybe find if one isn't right and is then throwing others off. While I'm at it, I'd like to crack the case and see if I can reattach the cluster's face & get it flat again. It can't be too tough, as there is a replacement fog-resistant window offered by Deere with part#. Appreciate the help/interest.

 

[JD5210]

Here is the link to JD parts catalog.
John Deere - Parts Catalog

If your cluster matches the one in the youtube, that one is a sealed unit. If you get a replacement, make sure it is programmed for 3 cyl.

Part number RE503242 is part of the cold start advance is connectted to the fuel solenoid. The hour meter comes off the alternator/regulator, this is from the tech. manual TM1716.

I highly suggest you put JD fuel conditioner in it. After a couple tanks of fuel my tractor starts with just a flick of the key and stopped black smoke at startup. If you replace the fuel filter, I fill the filter before putting on and I have never had to bleed it.

 

[Zebrafive]

First post said 2WD

 

[the old grind]

Yeah, something I've heard is that the series' 2WD spindles are a weakness for heavy loader use, and it'll be interesting to see if using my o'size Allied might cost me one someday. Replacing a LF on the JD 1520 (an old crack finished itself while toting a big rock) was <$200 with new bushings and thrust bearing. Spindle for the 5210 is several hun (4-5?) by itself.

Installing the non-JD loader awaits a mounting kit and may become a story by itself, tho' no plans yet to work the big 84" Allied bucket (3/4-1 yd?). Pin-on SSQA adapter is also on b/o to use buckets interchangeably with my little NH. Doubt that tires are loaded so mucho ballast will be needed, and I'm thinking just a water barrel that'd let me transport some on either tractor when not working the FELs. IMO it wouldn't be too much. Long term plan is to get a small tree spade (30-36", either 3PH or SSQA) for one end of the Deere.

MY cluster may be the earliest, with 3 idiot lights/side vs 4 on ea. Guess I'll dive into that sooner than later cuz oil pressure, temp, & tach are what my eye stays on when operating. Not good for much if a needle hangs up & won't move past 1500 rpm.

JD5210, thanks so much for additional info! The wiring & hydro circuit stuff is priceless. btw: I may re-route SCV lines/adapters from the rear bracket closer to the loader's QD hydro hookups. Don't see RR use ahead, but adding remotes to both loaders for the small grapple or ?? else up front. The NH is my go-to & the JD is intended for occasional heavy lifting (<2k lb shop machine moving, tree yanking with Brush grubber ...) & hopefully will sport a small tree spade soon.

I admit I longed for something to tinker with since everything else runs so well (cars, truck, bike, ZTR, T5C) and I miss getting my hands dirty once in a while.

 

[joecdeere]

I have PDF's of both the Tractor tech manual and the CTM125 that you're welcome to, shoot me your email if wanted

Joe

 

[the old grind]

Sure, thanks Joe! PM coming later today ...

Well, after nursing rusted bolts and frozen J-nuts from plastic body panels I got the cluster out and find it to be a sealed unit, not one that a typical user would replace a fogging OEM 'window' on. As far as my concern about this being orig and the hours true, check the label's date.


A warped 'dial face' suggests this guy has sit a lot in the sun in five or less years.



The back shows water-tightness and no access screws to allow changing bulbs, with a blanked plug in one of two unused bosses.


The 'window' is sealed on like an auto windshield. I should be able to slice it loose with a hobby knife and reassemble with Super Black or similar. I don't see clamping as a challenge, but any suggestions on an adhesive to reattach the poly dial face to the plastic backing it was originally stuck to? (looks like ABS under there) I guess it was a spray-on something that didn't hold up. Seal All spread sparingly? (pop rivets?.. :laughing

As for WAGs on past hours of service, one thing I look at it a crankcase breather tube. This one's is bone dry as far as my pinky will reach in, so blow-by if present isn't obvious recently in my hour or so of running unloaded.

Might as well take the hood off for another phase, valve lash and removing injectors, compression test before and after lash if it's not dead-on, calling to see what injector once-overs will co$t. Btw, if there's nothing to suggest injector leak-down or other issue just yet, I'd hate to rely on an additive (PS as a rule) to clean nozzles and assure good spray patterns. Something just seems a smidge 'off' and "I'm going in."

 

[JD5210]

Looks like you have been busy today. Hopefully you can get that instrument lens off.

I would be interested to know if any adjustment is need to the values.

 

[the old grind]

I'm slowly getting 'brushed out' from our Dec ice storm. Pulling the injectors has taken a back seat to patching up the IP. The factory 'stickum' (might as well have been tape) must have got baked really good and loosened up. I did a hasty and suitably gawdawful job of pasting gobs of Ultra Black around inside edges after patting it back down. After re-sealing the glass it all looks about as neat as the ashtray I made for Dad in 2nd grade art class. (groan ..) Probably ought to sign my work, too.

I want to be able to trust the tach, get a better o'all feel, even sound-record what I'm hearing. What sounds rough to me may be normal, but similar 5210s I've watched on youtube or elsewhere just purred by comparison. Once I muscle the hood out of my way to clean things up I hope to pull the injectors without removing the muffler. I also still have to make up something to adapt my compression tester & clamp into their unthreaded bores. (What I'm in doubt about is whether it's 300 psi scale is up to the 3029D's 17.8:1. )

I should be able to fire up, cool down, clean up, and pull the tin to get at the lifters tomorrow between burning mountains of elm twigs that don't know they're dying and are chucking pollen as I chop 'em up. :grumpy: I'm up to my eyebrows in 'irons' and struggle to keep the fire even going ..:hissyfit: ... :laughing:

I'd like to throw out a special thanks to member joecdeere for an invaluable trove of useful info cloud9 .. without which I might as well be swinging a claw hammer.

 

[JD5210]

Sounds like you are making progress! Thanks for letting us know how things are going.

How about this $40.00 tool from Harbor Freight? Put the sensor tape on the PTO shaft and measure if you are getting 540 when the tach is showing 2,400 RPM. I would think a short plastic tube could be put over the end of the PTO shaft to extend it as there may not be enough room to get the sensor close enough to the shaft.

If you elect to do this. I would be interested to know what RPMs you get at the PTO shaft at 2,000 and 1,000

Digital Photo Sensor Tachometer

When are we going to get some pictures of the tractor?

 

[the old grind]

Well, I extended my uh .. break to take a few pics. Recent paint looks sharp, even up close. Nooks and crannies show dirt & rust I'd expect on a 15 yo machine. All gauges are working, seem ok. Light switch pinouts were scrambled & headlights now working, but turn & hazards are still goofy. If it's not the flasher/switch, I suspect one of the diode packs isn't right. That can be checked later.


I did manage to get two vids w/sound but will have to host them somewhere if my guys (the best) won't do .avi for me. I'm sure any would agree from the sound that either one cyl is weak or one is strong. (working on that upload) Its true hours are showing somewhere, if not on the readout.

Here's the loader that I ordered the mounting kit for.


Now that 'er my pace can be better reconciled with my braggadocio rolleyes, I'm hesitating on pulling the injectors before the lash job that I'm so sure hasn't been done every 400 hrs per JD. Didn't call DFI yet because I didn't have 'em out. No JD dealer in my county lately other than mower dealers, but won't need more than a rocker pan gasket for now.

JD5210, I have the digital tach now, promise to check PTO rpm soon. Nice to see what near PTO speed sounded like & know where I am above 1k rpm now. Guess I could Ultra Black the pan cover vs ordering a gasket. It's non-corrosive (vs reg silicones) and made for that ...

Ooops! Thumbnails below are from ... 'er too many thumbs ....

 

[JD5210]

Looking good, glad you got the instrument cluster working as that would have sent you back a few bucks! There is only one diode pack, what does goof mean on the flashers? There are black tube plugs at the base of the ROPS on each side under the tractor one for positive and one for negative. There also identical looking plugs down there for fender lights that come on only the 5510. The fender light plugs have power when the work light is on.

I have never seen or read that there is any way to tell how many hours other than what is on the cluster.

The paint looks really good and I bet with a little light rubbing compound and an electric buffer that hood will look as good as new.

I am guessing you already figured out you are missing the cover over the PTO shaft and the cover over the transmission in front of the seat.

Nice loader even has its own hood guard. If you are planning on put a coolant heater on it, you may want to do it before you put the loader mounts on. The coolant plug is located at the back and top of the engine on the left side and requires a 5/8 allen wrench.

 

[the old grind]

OK, here's 'what I got'.

Before checking into it the flashers worked, as did both rear light bulbs (here & there), but lotsa stuff didn't even light up. LT arrow on the cluster was on no matter what I did. While I had the cowl semi-off (#!&$ j-nuts) I pulled the HL and TS switch terminals, buffed one by one with SS wire brush and Hoppes #9 and corrected the Or/Yel mismatch. Voila! Head and instrument lights work fine and in correct sw positions. RT works ok, but LT and flashers still don't. Flasher mech is part of the TS switch(?) & I think having lost its seal & being on the 'wet & rusty' side I'm sure it's toast. Kinda OT here, and on the back burner for now.

Bodywork paint does indeed look good from >10' away, but shows a few scratches and some burned edges from being buffed when up close. Just about everything not green or yellow could use a going-over. That can wait a bit, too.

I noticed no PTO cover while on the lot. Trans cover was me removing foot-boards to see if the '2750' etc loader mount could be cobbed into working with only a few brackets milled/drilled, whatever. Not a chance. Green part on the front is part of the mount I bought FEL with and it's coming off. Lacking the 'right' 495 (S-model, for 'short') I was still able to order a mounting kit for the shorter wheelbase Deere, with Buhler/F-K's blessing and a caution only that it'll hang 6" or so farther forward than ideal. Oughta look BA vs the '395' that'd better suit this use. 2 1/2" cyls and 2800 PSI (if accurate) should be enough to get me in trouble. Don't plan to 'push it' or use the 84" bucket at all, but might have to add the old mounts to whatever ballast I'll really need with this setup.

Here's where the valve lash was:
All intakes: .021-.022"
All exhaust: .027-.028"

Normal wear is obvious, but I was hoping that if one was way off I'd be able to smooth things out a bit. Guess all I might get is closer to rated power, at best. Expect a much-needed oil change soon and an 'after' vid with sound. (Maybe what I think I heard was all in my head.) We'll have to see if the vids are worth or emailing to someone with a good ear for 3029Ds, and btw mine is a 'Torreon' vs 'Saran'.

Still hesitant to pull injectors just yet. Don't believe I have the right reamer for the bores if needed and not wanting to fuss with all the seals if I'm not yet sure they'd need gone over or replaced. Compression should be 350psi and my gauge only goes to 300. Not sure where to go from here... it's 5 PM and after too many hrs under the hood (hard-way Harry, here) all I'm thinking about right now is having lunch. (pant .. gasp ...)

You guys are great, and I couldn't have done this without the confidence of your encouragement! :thumbsup: Care to suggest which forum I should start a thread in when the FEL mounts arrive? (JD, attachments, .. overly-ambitious projects? :laughing

 

[JD5210]

The neighbors son did a video of my tractor idling last summer, if you want it PM me with your e-mail address and I will e-mail to you as it is too large to post. Thanks for the info on the valves.

I am sure you will sort out the flashers.

http://www.farm-king.com/manuals/AbFK-FEL/loader-495-2005.pdf

 

[the old grind]

Well, guess what? Sorta good, sorta so-so. I did start it up and was pleased that pro'ly half the racket I had been listening to was valve noise, something I should have expected to lessen, or at least thought about. (+.007" int, +.010" ex??.. ) 'Big D' (temp name) seems quieter running in it's bay that it had outside or inside before. May even come to 'operate' it without earplugs. :laughing: (.. I'm really sensitive to noise [insert pouty emoticon] ..) Feels smoother o'all but I may need a few laps around the yard to be sure it's not just in my head, or whether cyls still sound 'uneven' to me.

I'd thought days earlier about whipping out the SPL meter, and for whatever reason decided a vid's audio would suffice. (Regrettin' it now.) :confused3: I can duplicate the angles, distance and shoot 'afters' to see what the camera can pick up. (My AVI's are 32Mb and 47Mb. Guess if I can zip 'em, I could ship 'em. ('7ZIP').

JD5210, thanks for the 495 manual. PM coming with my em, .. and more vids are planned for. I'd better find lengths/source for hoses, fittings, extensions(?) for that (4 lines). Once the mount kit is here I should be ready to heft it on in an afternoon or so, hook the FEL up if I have 'em ready, & see what the extra 6" of overhang looks & feels like. (btw, plan to share smaller buckets/gadgets with the NH for most all work.)

Haven't heard about the ordered 495 pin-on SSQA adapter or the JD mount kit yet but expect to within a week or so. Fat chance of me being ready for that on time. [insert forehead-slap emoticon]

btw, rear lights/mounts are shaking loose from the ROPS, will need rebuilt or replaced. For now I'm just thrilled to see all the gauges working. Gotta gather specs, best filter, juice for that much-needed oil change ....

(I can't promise the injectors will be fussed with so soon after all.)

 

[JD5210]

Looks like you are making good progress.

TSC cares hydraulic hoses and fittings. At least around me the tractor dealerships will custom make them for you. If I am going to use my tractor for an extended period I always wear ear protection, those 3 cylinder engines are on the loud side.

I have included a link to the manual for the 540 loader. You may want to look at Section : 45 - Attaching the Loader, #12. To see how the hoses are support as that is a long run from the loader to the back of the tractor. The manual also has some recommendations on ballast weight. Looks like your dust covers are missing Identifying Hose Connections in the manual (bottom of page) shows which port does what.

http://manuals.deere.com/omview/OMW44993_19/

If you need new bulbs for the flasher the number is 1156, at least by me Wal-Mart has them.