JD 4600 4WD Leaking Front Axle

[DanMc77]

I am seeing a puddle under the 4WD axle steering pivots with my 4600 tractor. Anybody here have any experience with changing the seals in there? What is involved with this? Is it best to just pull the axle and have a shop do this?

 

[beenthere]

Pic of the "puddle" would help..
Found on my 4300 that loosening the fill/dipstick cap to allow expansion of the axle oil when it gets warmed up will relieve the bleeding out the seals.

But have not done a seal changeout, but understand from other on TBN that it is a DIY-possible task.

Others will chime in that know more, and pic or two will encourage that response.

 

[DanMc77]

There isn't a vent somewhere in the axle? I checked the fluid in the axle last summer and it was off the dip stick. I put in quite a bit of lube, so I fear that it may have been fairly (or completely) empty. Anyway, I had it parked outside for the summer and never noticed any leaking oil. Now that I have it in the garage for the winter, the little oil stains on the concrete floor become obvious. The oil is dripping from the steering pivots, mostly on the right side, and is enough of a leak to create a puddle. When I check the oil, nothing shows on the dip stick, so I need to get this fixed before I wreck the axle. I should really fill it and then drain to see if I get any metal filings out of it, but that will happen anyway when it's opened up to replace the seals.

 

[beenthere]

Have you read the "similar threads" suggestions that pop up at the bottom of these pages? May be some good history of these axles there to learn more.

There isn't a vent somewhere in the axle?

Do not think so..

Does sound like your seals are shot.. but if you have it inside, go for changing them out.
Do you have the service tech manual to follow?

 

[DanMc77]

I found the service manual buried on my hard drive. Here's the front hub exploded diagram. Doesn't look like it would be too bad. Seems like the whole hub assembly should be easily removed by taking off the 4 bolts and then the hub yoke can be brought in and worked with on the bench. If anybody here has done this, please share your experience.

I called the JD dealer to see what they would charge for this work. Prepare for adventure.

 

[waycoolmarine]

there is a bunch of threads on this subject its easy your on the right track with removing the 4 bolts they are tight with lock tight but a breaker bar gets then off , hardest part is not tearing boots on tie rod end. there is a spanner nut in there bend the tabs off and it comes out with a punch and hammer if you dont have the socket , its not real tight . your 1st time about 3 hours when you have done a couple about 1 1/2 hours. seal and bottom plug , i usually replace the allen screws for drain holes, while im there and put 80/90 weight in instead of hygaurd

 

[DanMc77]

When I added the lube last summer, I went with the "real deal" and got the hygaurd. I was surprised at the low viscosity of this stuff versus the normal heavy weight 80/90 gear lube. Maybe if I put in the heavier gear lube, my leak may drop off substantially. It's comforting to know that its a 3 hour job for a first-timer. Might as well change all 3 seals in there while it's apart.

How much do you want to bet that the dealer service dept charges 3 hours of time per side??? I should get a call back from them today with their estimate.

 

[rademamj1]

I remember a thread on this last summer from a JD owner. He brought his tractor into his local dealer and then waited over 6 weeks for a special JD tool, to arrive at the dealer required to pull the axle seals. Turns out the same seal puller tool was at NAPA all along for about $12.00. It looked very much like a small pry bar with a hooks on both ends. Once the tool arrived at the dealer, it was all done in less than a day.

 

[pmsmechanic]

I just finished doing this on a 4410. 3 hours first time sounds reasonable. I looked the whole situation over and I choose not to remove the knuckle. I laid a piece of carpet down on the floor of my shop and I did the whole job on the tractor.

To remove the steering parts isn't hard. Just loosen the nuts enough to protect the treads and then push up with a small hydraulic jack. Several sharp raps on the casting by the ball joints and they were apart. Be careful removing part # 21 and you can reuse it. It gets glued back in with a special glue so make sure you have some of that on hand. I did not use a special tool to install the seal. Just careful tapping with a hammer.

I needed a special socket to remove the spindle nut but could get it off with a punch. After it was off I made a socket. I don't see that nut on your parts diagram so there must be some differences between the front ends. I would definatly have a service manual on hand as it just makes the job that much easier.

Have fun!

I should also mention that the new seals came in Dana/Spicer boxes with John Deere part numbers stickered over the Dana part numbers. They also weren't cheap. $230 CAD or so both seals so if you can find the Dana/Spicer part #'s and order from Spicer you might be able to save a few $.

 

[beenthere]

pms
Could you tell which of the 3 (?) seals was leaking?
Am wondering if the #29 seal is leaking if just the #28 part can be removed and replace just the single seal. Admit that probably would not be that easy, and smart to replace all seals.
So far, not a leak problem.. but after 22 years, suspect it will be "one of these days".

Had a good 6-7 inches of snow to remove this morning.. Windy but 29 deg F was not too bad. Will be winging it back tomorrow tho.

 

[pmsmechanic]

On my tractor #29 was leaking and also #19/#5. On my tractor those two pieces came as a set. #5 is a steel wear ring.

At first they would only leak as the differential warmed up. Towards the end they were both leaking constantly. The rim/tire was coated in oil.

I don't know of a third seal.

#28 is easy to remove if just the wheel seal is leaking. And really the rest isn't that hard to remove either if the spindle seal is also leaking. It just takes time.

Also I spent some time brousing John Deere's parts web site. Make sure you use the right parts diagram. There are three different ones for the front drive. #14 is a heavy duty snap ring. You'll need a heavy duty set of snap ring plyers to remove it. #11 is the nut that I was able to remove with just a punch and later built the socket. My nut was held from turning with a lock washer with tabs on it that got bent into the slots in the nut

I was able to make the socket by using a 4" piece of exhaust tubing and pushed the nut into it with my hydraulic press. I then carefully sawed the pipe to fit into the slots in the nut, tapped the cut pieces into the slots and again carefully welded the cuts up. I then welded an old socket onto the other end and I had enough of a socket to handle the 14(?) ft lbs of torque called for.

 

[CADplans]

When I added the lube last summer, I went with the "real deal" and got the hygaurd. I was surprised at the low viscosity of this stuff versus the normal heavy weight 80/90 gear lube. Maybe if I put in the heavier gear lube, my leak may drop off substantially. It's comforting to know that its a 3 hour job for a first-timer. Might as well change all 3 seals in there while it's apart.

How much do you want to bet that the dealer service dept charges 3 hours of time per side??? I should get a call back from them today with their estimate.

My JD 4105 had that leak issue,,

I drained the Hygard,, I think there were three drains.
I bought a 2 gallon jug of 140WT at Tractor Supply.
I filled the front axle, mowed for 2 hours, then drained the axle again,, and refilled the axle with 140WT,, again.

That was 2 years ago,, not a drop leaks,, ever,,
The tractor gets serious use,, I plowed 6" of dense, heavy snow for 2 hours today,,
the front axle gets chains so that I can steer in the snow,, the front axle is not babied. (no rear chains, only front)

IMHO, what oil you use in the front axle is your choice.

 

[DanMc77]

Just got a call back from the dealer. Assuming that they only have to replace some worn-out seals, replacing them is $1500-2000. The seal kit for each side is $50. He said it was around 6 hours labor.

So on the high side, $1900/6 = $317/hour. I would call this stinkin' thinkin'.

 

[DanMc77]

CADPlans: I see that you run chains only in the front. I was cautioned to never run chains only in the front because it can overload the axle and you can end up twisting it.

I think I'll try the 90W gear oil and see if the leak stops!!!! Maybe they like the lighter Hyguard because it increases service revenue due to leaks!!!!!!!!!

 

[CADplans]

CADPlans: I see that you run chains only in the front. I was cautioned to never run chains only in the front because it can overload the axle and you can end up twisting it.

I think I'll try the 90W gear oil and see if the leak stops!!!! Maybe they like the lighter Hyguard because it increases service revenue due to leaks!!!!!!!!!

I only run chains when I plow snow with the rear blade,,
and,,
the main reason for the chains is that the 4105 does not have steering brakes.
The worn R4 tires on the front has as much side traction as a drag racing slick.
So,, the chains allows me to direct the tractor in the direction that I want to go,,,

Actually, next time it snows, I think I will try 2WD,, with the front chains.
I would bet the tractor would work in 2WD nearly as well as 4WD.

In 2WD, I will be able to steer, and there will be no worries about excess load on the front axle,,,

The 4105 is virtually identical to a Ford 8N,, as far as wheelbase, width, tire size, etc,,.
The BIG difference is the Ford has steering brakes,,,

About the only thing I run that has gear oil is the Troy Bilt tiller.
The Troy Bilt calls for 140WT, that is the main reason I got 140,, instead of 90WT.

 

[beenthere]

the main reason for the chains is that the 4105 does not have steering brakes.

That is indeed a surprise.. wonder what JD was thinking?

 

[pmsmechanic]

That is indeed a surprise.. wonder what JD was thinking?

I'm guessing they just cut corners to help be price competitive. The thought went through my mind that the steering brakes from another model might just bolt up. What model is the 4105 a striped down version of?

 

[CADplans]

I'm guessing they just cut corners to help be price competitive. The thought went through my mind that the steering brakes from another model might just bolt up. What model is the 4105 a striped down version of?

It is a hydrostatic transmission,, with floor pedal transmission control. I would imagine that the market JD was going after is the doctor spreading a little bit of wood shavings for the horses.
Those DR's would not know a steering brake from a starter crank,,

anyways, having two steering brakes, and two transmission control pedals ,, plus a parking brake pedal would overwhelm most DR's that I have met. :laughing: LOL!!

We also have a JD 855,, it has all 5 of those pedals, so I know it can be done,,

I have seen posts on TBN where people claim they never have used the steering brakes,, go figure!! :confused2:

 

[beenthere]

What model is the 4105 a striped down version of?

Appears the model 4005 had dual brakes ('08-'14) but the next model 4105 just a single brake.

With hydrostatic, seems individual brakes are used less.. but plowing snow today, I used them quite often to stop a slipping wheel and get traction on the other one. Could have used positraction but prefer to save that option especially if a wheel is slipping.
Turning sharp is another need for individual brakes.
Would even like that option on my 4xx lawn tractors and pondered how to add some simple disc brakes with some hand levers near the fenders to accomplish that.. but haven't pushed that idea hard at all. The AWS option will get one out of slippery conditions handily as well as for turning.

Hope the front axle oil change stops the bleeding. Let us know.. pls.

 

[DanMc77]

Even my 332 has steering brakes. I have another thread over on the JD Lawn and Garden forum, discussing upgrading the 332 with the slightly larger 4WD 2210. I never thought to consider if the 2210 has steering brakes. I think it doesn't.

Maybe I should go all the way to the 140W oil. I'm sure there's a thread here that discusses what oil people use in the axles.