JD 2320 Won't Start

smartc · May 24, 2015

Looking for some pointers if anyone can help... I've got a 2320 tractor that won't start. It had overheated earlier in the day when the grille plugged up and I shut it down to let it cool off. Everything was fine the next time I started it, but after I shut it off a few minutes later it refused to start again. Initially the glow plug light came on and all looked good, but when I turned the key I heard a loud click and then nothing. After that I lost all electrical power to boot.

Here's what I've checked / tried so far:

Replaced battery - might as well state that first!
Checked all fuses (5 that I could find) - all appear to be fine
Checked coolant level - topped up
Checked fuel cutoff switch - it's open

I'd hoped the new battery was the key, but no change. If I completely disconnect the electrical, I can get electrical power back and the glow plug will come back on. (Sometimes, but not always.) Beyond that, everything stops with that loud click when I turn the key to "Start". My guess is a bad relay but I can't even figure out how to get at them... Looks like I need to take the lower cowling off the instrument panel but I stopped when I couldn't get the upper cowling off for fear of damaging something.

Only other thing to add is that the tractor is parked on a slight incline, whereas it was on flat ground when I last got it started. Not sure if there might be a fluid level switch somewhere I've confused??

Any ideas? The JD dealership up the highway opens tomorrow so I'll give them a call but am still hoping this might be something I can resolve today.

Cheers and thanks!
Corey

zzvyb6 · May 24, 2015

Loud click is fuel flow enable. (That's normal). I'd first check parking brake, seat and pto safety settings. If they are OK, give the starter a wallop with a hammer to see if the heat dried out any lubricant and the solenoid is stuck. Did the overhet light comes on and that's the reason you shut it down or did it quit outright ?

You can always try to jump the starter directly and see if it rolls over. If key is on it still may not light up. Let us know what you find.

smartc · May 24, 2015

No I shut it down before it conked out, but I'm not sure how long the light was on before I noticed. Definitely long enough to get the overflow tank boiling but not long enough to boil it dry.

Should have mentioned, I have checked the brake, PTO and seat already. Gave the starter a whack, but no difference there. Still no electrical power anywhere... not even the lights will come on. Must be a relay somewhere that's cutting power on me, but I'll be darned if I can figure out where it is. Going to go dig out my multimeter and see if I can measure power coming to the fuse boxes.

Thanks for the tips... I'll keep poking around under the hood and let you know what I find, tho likely to be the dealer who gets there first now.

Corey

wmonroe · May 24, 2015

Are the terminals clean and tight on the new battery?

smartc · May 24, 2015

Yep... Double checked that again tonight. Also checked at the main supply (40A) fuse and am getting full battery voltage there with the power switch on.

Couldn't quite get to the relays under the cowling, but I did get at the starter switch... Seems odd, but maybe someone can tell me if this is normal. There are 5 leads coming off the starter, 2 on top and 3 below. Wish now that I'd snapped a picture but let's call them A-E as per below (sorry for the crude schematic):

A B
C D E

With the key in "Off", I get ~ 12.4 volts between 'D' and any of the other leads, and the same between 'D' and the frame. So I'm guessing that's my hot wire from the battery.

With the key in "On" (not "Start") I get no voltage between 'D' and any other lead, and no voltage between 'D' and the frame. Neither do I get a voltage reading from any of the other leads (either between leads or between them and the frame). I checked at the battery and voltage there is the same as when I measured with the key in the "Off" position. I'm not sure what is upstream of the starter switch, but whatever is happening seems to be killing power to the starter switch. (Or maybe I just don't have a clue about how that switch is supposed to work - which is also possible!) Then again, I know I have voltage at the fuse box with the key on, so I'm not sure what to make of things.

I don't have a service manual... Does anyone know where I might dig out an electrical schematic?

Corey

zzvyb6 · May 24, 2015

Here's what your manual says (in case you don't have one. I found it in-line)

Loose or corroded battery connections.

Blown fuse.

Low battery output - check electrolyte level.

Neutral start switch faulty or not adjusted properly - See your John Deere Dealer.

Key switch or starter faulty - See your John Deere Dealer.

Range transmission lever not in neutral position.

PTO engaged.

Fawken · May 24, 2015

Kinda sounds like your starter windings or solenoid windings got too hot and shorted out.

smartc · May 25, 2015

zzvyb6: Thanks... I did find that earlier. Seems I'm down to the switch key or starter.

Fawkin: I guess the good news is they can be replaced. I think this will be one for the service department so hopefully they can get it in this week.

I'll update once I have a diagnosis for benefit of anyone else who's interested.

Cheers!

smartc · May 25, 2015

Quick status update for anyone who's interested...

I got a reply from the dealership early this morning. The service tech (Mike) was great! :thumbsup: He talked me thru a few possibilities and sent me thru a diagnostic procedure with (most helpfully) an electrical schematic of the starter circuit. (I won't repost here out of respect for the copyright mark on the bottom, but PM me if you're in need.)

All of that is pointing at the key switch as the problem. I didn't have a chance to get my hands on the tractor until after the dealer had closed, so expecting to hear from Mike again tomorrow morning about parts. Should be a fairly straightforward fix if I can figure out how to release the existing key switch from the cowling!

Updates to follow once I've got my hands on the part.

Cheers!

wmonroe · May 26, 2015

That's good news. Hopefully it is a simple part swap.

smartc · May 26, 2015

Yep tested the key switch itself tonight and it has a short in the START circuit. New part is about $100 and I already have the old one sitting beside my keyboard. Photo of culprit below. Good news indeed, considering the starter / solenoid is 13x that price!

Off to 'jdparts' right now to place an order. Hopefully will be in before the weekend, but looks like rain until mid next week anyway so not like I'll be needing the tractor before it gets here.

On a semi-related note, anyone know what kind of tool you'd use to install the nut for a key switch? (Or more specifically where you'd find it or what it's called?) The nut is circular and has two notches where you'd line up a specialty wrench of some sort to tighten it. You can see one of them in the photo above. I just used a pair of pliers to take the old one off, but would be nice not to mangle the finish on the new one when I put it on.

Cheers!
Corey

beenthere · May 26, 2015

Google "hook spanner wrench" as that appears to be what you need... or make something like it.

Fawken · May 27, 2015

$100? I just replaced mine with a compatible ignition switch off the shelf at TSC ($9.95).

buickanddeere · May 27, 2015

Shutting the engine down made it hotter than it would have been operating a no load and full rated Rpms.

smartc · May 27, 2015

Fawken said:
$100? I just replaced mine with a compatible ignition switch off the shelf at TSC ($9.95).

Good to know... Doesn't look like they have any stores in Alberta however. Do you know what the manufacturer / part number was that you picked up? I had a look at their supplier website and the only part I see for a 2320 under "Ignition & Electrical" is a starter relay. Don't have time to dig further right now but might prod deeper when I get home tonight.

Fawken · May 27, 2015

It's an ignition switch. Fairly simple. I adapted mine to the most common TSC switch I could find which is for an "N" series Ford. The original had the glow plugs incorporated so I put in a 10 amp SPST chrome push-button for that. The entire electrical system on mine has been replaced (except for the horn) with lights and bulbs available at TSC or NAPA. Result: way brighter headlights and no down time if something fails on the weekend.

beenthere · May 27, 2015

So Fawken has a JD 2320?

Fawken · May 27, 2015

No. Does Beinthere have an 1100? A switch is a switch. I suppose if your 2320 is still under warranty..........

smartc · Jun 5, 2015

Well so much for Plan A... Looks like it is indeed the starter. JD wants an obscene amount just for the part, but I've got a non-OEM starter on the way. I figured I may as well get the old one pulled out so I'm ready when it gets here. Now I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I'm stumped on getting it out. The two bolts are easy enough, but the motor mounting plate is in the way and I can't sort out how I'm meant to get the starter off.

The starter won't clear the lower mounting stud. I tried taking the rear nut off the stud, but that doesn't actually do anything for the stud itself, which is threaded into the housing. I had a look at the motor mounting plate (or at least that's what I think it is), but that doesn't look particularly inclined to move without some serious dismantling. Surely there's an easier way... I've got a technical manual on the way but it's probably a few days behind the starter itself.

Any tips or ideas?

Fawken · Jun 5, 2015

Two options:
One; take that nut off, put the starter back in place, and install both nuts on the stud on the engine side. Lock them together and you can then thread the stud further into the bell housing. OR....
Two: Go to the hardware and get two, thin nuts w/ the same threads and do the procedure from the backside of the bell housing.
Personally, since you're in waiting on part mode, I'd opt for number two.
BTW, darn that starter looks clean. Are you sure it's not just the solenoid? Either way you can probably rebuild it yourself on the bench pretty easily once your new on is installed. Then you'll have a ready-2-go back-up. I got a starter like that on Ebay about 4 years ago for $79 shipped. Installed it. Rebuilt my OEM expecting the Chinese starter would get me through one season- and guess what? That Chinese knock-off is still cranking like new.