Is this a 9n?

[Jarrett]

One of my coworkers brought some pics of his Dad's tractor that he'll be selling soon. They think it's a 9n. Can anyone verify that by looking at these pics? Also, any idea what brand the bush hog is? I realize that may be kind of difficult, with all the mods/repairs done to it.

 

[RobertN]

Did you get a serial number off the tractor? Engine casting number? That would help ID it. Also, YTmag.com has ID info for 9n/2n/8n.

 

[Nat]

Either a 2n, or a 9n. I don't think you can tell the difference without the SN.
Maybe soundguy will chime in here as he has one ,later, nat

 

[Farmwithjunk]

.....unless someone has swapped the steering wheel..... 9N had a 4-spoke wheel OR 3-spoke wheel with rubber-coated spokes. 2N had 3-spoke wheel with exposed metal spokes. (to reduce the volume of rubber used to coat the steering wheel during wartime production of the 2N [WW II])

It's a pre-1944 version at that. 1944 saw the radius rods change from "I-beam" to oval tube.

It's DEFINATELY NOT an 8N. Many differences.

So, from those "clues", 1942 to 1944 2N.

Serial # would positively confirm the year of production.

 

[gemini5362]

Farmwithjunk. didnt most of the 9n's also come with three speed transmissions and the 8n with 4 speeds ?

 

[atgreene]

The 9N & 2N are virtually identical. On the housing next to the starter or on the rear-end housing, if there is a #(not all had them), the last digit will be the year (2 for '42, 6 for '46 etc...).

The 9N went from serial # 1 -99047, the 2N went from 99047-258540.

We have a collection of 9's, 2's 1 8N and a 600, 800 and a 4000. I learned to drive on the one my family has had since '63.

I'm new here, so I'll refrain from posting a pic of ours running a shingle mill, but once I get settled in I'lll be sure to post some pics of our's.

Good luck.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Farmwithjunk. didnt most of the 9n's also come with three speed transmissions and the 8n with 4 speeds ?

Now ya went an done it! Asked me a question I don't know the answer to. The differences in the 9N/2N and the 8N are many. Most obvious is the front and rear wheels. My dad taught me the "quick look" difference in the steering wheels to spot the difference between 9N's and 2N's since they're just about identical. 8N's stand out like a sore thumb next the the 2 earlier models. Dad bought and sold dozens of N's. I was into "Fergies" myself.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Farmwithjunk. didnt most of the 9n's also come with three speed transmissions and the 8n with 4 speeds ?

Now ya went an done it! Asked me a question I don't know the answer to. The differences in the 9N/2N and the 8N are many. Most obvious is the front and rear wheels. My dad taught me the "quick look" difference in the steering wheels to spot the difference between 9N's and 2N's since they're just about identical otherwise. 8N's stand out like a sore thumb next the the 2 earlier models. Dad bought and sold dozens of N's. I was always into "Fergies" myself.

I've been looking through "FORD TRACTORS, N Series, Fordson, Ford and Ferguson, 1914-1954" by Robert Pripps and Andrew Morland. They list a few very subtle differences in the 9N and 2N, but none except the steering wheel differences are visable in the photos at the start of this thread. They do support the claim of different steering wheels by the way.

 

[Soundguy]

Farmwithjunk. didnt most of the 9n's also come with three speed transmissions and the 8n with 4 speeds ?

ALL 9n/2n had the 3spd( +R) tranny.. ALL 8n had the 4spd (+R) tranny.

As well as the large front hub FWJ pointed out.. the 9n/2n also had a large rear hub, stradle break pedals.. one on each side.. no position control handle under the seat.. just a draft control..

Later 9n and all 2n had the mechanical jiggle stick interlock starter button inthe ltranny housing... ( war time models with no electric had a plug.. )

Early models had a non presurized radiator with a big top tank.. alllater models had a 4psi system..

There are about 20-30 more 'small' differences.. but those are the bigger ones..


Soundguy

 

[Grrrr]

The 9N & 2N are virtually identical. On the housing next to the starter or on the rear-end housing, if there is a #(not all had them), the last digit will be the year (2 for '42, 6 for '46 etc...).

The 9N went from serial # 1 -99047, the 2N went from 99047-258540.

We have a collection of 9's, 2's 1 8N and a 600, 800 and a 4000. I learned to drive on the one my family has had since '63.

I'm new here, so I'll refrain from posting a pic of ours running a shingle mill, but once I get settled in I'lll be sure to post some pics of our's.

Good luck.

No, we want to see the pictures now

Just make sure you make it easy for us members to see on slow internet connections

 

[Farmwithjunk]

ALL 9n/2n had the 3spd( +R) tranny.. ALL 8n had the 4spd (+R) tranny.

As well as the large front hub FWJ pointed out.. the 9n/2n also had a large rear hub, stradle break pedals.. one on each side.. no position control handle under the seat.. just a draft control..

Later 9n and all 2n had the mechanical jiggle stick interlock starter button inthe ltranny housing... ( war time models with no electric had a plug.. )

Early models had a non presurized radiator with a big top tank.. alllater models had a 4psi system..

There are about 20-30 more 'small' differences.. but those are the bigger ones..


Soundguy

I've come to realize that "revisionist history" can tell a story most any way it wants to. There wasn't much in the way of recorded history of the shift from the 9N to the 2N. Even Ford parts manuals changed as time went along. As parts exculsive to the 9N, but replacable with parts issued as 2N original equipment became extinct, Ford just issued 2N parts as replacments. There isn't always that distinct "line" where one ends and the other begins except for serial numbers. To make matters even more confusing, Ford started making some of those minute changes to production models even before the change in model designation began.

Robert Pripps has authored several books on the N's. He's reconized as one of the formost authorities on the subject......and he can't say for sure at what point some of these changes were carried out. Pripps, in a couple of his books, makes note of the fact that no one can say unequivically what the "2" in 2N stood for. It's always been accepted that it stood for the 2 in 1942, the year when the change in model designation was made, but nothing in Ford archives actually says that's a fact. It does make sense though. I've read a few accounts that the designation was made to mark the beginning of "war production" models during WW II. But, as Pripps indicates, these changes were being incorperated from 1941 through 1947 with the bulk of changes in 1942 through 1944. The change from 9N to 2N was more of a gradual evolution with a change of designation at a midway point than of a specific change in models. THe foggy history just adds to the mistique.

 

[Lucky1]

I have seen some stamped on the casting of the transmission case. If I remember they were just stamped 2N or 9N. I think the foot pedals were different , wheels and electricals. They made so many I think some of the same models were a bit different. The brush-hog looks like a ford, I had one like it on a 8N at one time.

 

[Soundguy]

I't's almost deffinately "2" for model/year 1942.. that's in line witht he 9n / model year for 1939, and 8n model/year for 1948. ( As we know.. N's rolle dof fthe assembly line ahead of their model/year release number.. thus you see 1947 8n's, and the first NAA in 1952, not 1953 when the golden jubilee designation came out.

The most compelling story I've heard so far ont he 2n designation was for wartime model change so the prices could be increased, as there were price freezes in place. Only way to get more money for the same tractor was a different 'model' .. thus a handfull of cosmetic changes were cooked up.


As you point out, ford was always making in-line changes to it's models.. many examples exist.. IE.. big ones.. like radious rods.. etc, to the lower reverse gear ont he 8n mid way thru 1952 production.. they even had to bulge the tranny casting for that one.

Fuel tank taps on the 1955/hundred series went to a small valve with 2 sheet metal screws holding it to the bottom of the tank.. unlike the N / naa style with the fuel bowl at a corner of a tank. Ford never threy anything away.. they used old parts when they could.. I have 2 early hundred series tanks.. with what I'm sure are the OEM tanks.. that have the old style fuel tap on the ide.. and not the new style valve held on be sheet metal screws.. etc. I'm sure there are dozens of more examples of mid line changes that get lost between the lines.. etc. Other than the big ones on sn breaks.. like the front distrib / steering box change during the 8n line.. etc..

Soundguy

I've come to realize that "revisionist history" can tell a story most any way it wants to. There wasn't much in the way of recorded history of the shift from the 9N to the 2N. Even Ford parts manuals changed as time went along. As parts exculsive to the 9N, but replacable with parts issued as 2N original equipment became extinct, Ford just issued 2N parts as replacments. There isn't always that distinct "line" where one ends and the other begins except for serial numbers. To make matters even more confusing, Ford started making some of those minute changes to production models even before the change in model designation began.

Robert Pripps has authored several books on the N's. He's reconized as one of the formost authorities on the subject......and he can't say for sure at what point some of these changes were carried out. Pripps, in a couple of his books, makes note of the fact that no one can say unequivically what the "2" in 2N stood for. It's always been accepted that it stood for the 2 in 1942, the year when the change in model designation was made, but nothing in Ford archives actually says that's a fact. It does make sense though. I've read a few accounts that the designation was made to mark the beginning of "war production" models during WW II. But, as Pripps indicates, these changes were being incorperated from 1941 through 1947 with the bulk of changes in 1942 through 1944. The change from 9N to 2N was more of a gradual evolution with a change of designation at a midway point than of a specific change in models. THe foggy history just adds to the mistique.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I't's almost deffinately "2" for model/year 1942.. that's in line witht he 9n / model year for 1939, and 8n model/year for 1948. ( As we know.. N's rolle dof fthe assembly line ahead of their model/year release number.. thus you see 1947 8n's, and the first NAA in 1952, not 1953 when the golden jubilee designation came out.

The most compelling story I've heard so far ont he 2n designation was for wartime model change so the prices could be increased, as there were price freezes in place. Only way to get more money for the same tractor was a different 'model' .. thus a handfull of cosmetic changes were cooked up.


As you point out, ford was always making in-line changes to it's models.. many examples exist.. IE.. big ones.. like radious rods.. etc, to the lower reverse gear ont he 8n mid way thru 1952 production.. they even had to bulge the tranny casting for that one.

Fuel tank taps on the 1955/hundred series went to a small valve with 2 sheet metal screws holding it to the bottom of the tank.. unlike the N / naa style with the fuel bowl at a corner of a tank. Ford never threy anything away.. they used old parts when they could.. I have 2 early hundred series tanks.. with what I'm sure are the OEM tanks.. that have the old style fuel tap on the ide.. and not the new style valve held on be sheet metal screws.. etc. I'm sure there are dozens of more examples of mid line changes that get lost between the lines.. etc. Other than the big ones on sn breaks.. like the front distrib / steering box change during the 8n line.. etc..

Soundguy

The explaination of the 2N designation for the purpose of wartime price changes is in line with what other brands did at the same time. John Deere's big row crop tractor of the day was the model "G". The Gov. wouldn't allow a price increase on the same model, so Deere released the "GM" in '42. (GM as in G modified) It was for all intents and purposes the virtually same tractor, but the different model designation allowed a price change. In the Pripps authored books I've been reading, he holds with the traditional explaination of "9N in '39/2N in '42/8N in '48, but he defies anyone to show where FORD made that distinction. It makes logical sense, but try to find it in Ford records. I'd bet that if anyone in 1942 had any sense of the future "collectability" of any of the days tractors, better records would have surely been kept. But who knew?

The changing of features as a model went along wasn't exclusive to Ford either. Massey did it, so did others. During the 10-1/2 year production run of the US marketed 100 series, Massey changed hydraulic pumps, rear end castings, lift cylinders, tranny shifter designs, brake systems, even engine manufacturers (for the gassers) , along with many subtle improvements to the Perkins diesel line.

Just yesterday I was reading about design changes in the Deere 4020 as production went along. There were several major changes in engine design and power throughout their run.

 

[Offy]

9N with a King Kutter deck and ho-made link attachment.

 

[Grrrr]

That PTO shaft looks pretty scary to me

 

[Soundguy]

Yep.. I'm sure ford wasn't thinking that his units would be collectable.. His were more of the small economy tractor range.. 23-48 hp.. etc.., at least up to 1962.. anyway.. when they finally broke the 50 hp barrier with the bigger thousand series models.

Soundguy

The explaination of the 2N designation for the purpose of wartime price changes is in line with what other brands did at the same time. John Deere's big row crop tractor of the day was the model "G". The Gov. wouldn't allow a price increase on the same model, so Deere released the "GM" in '42. (GM as in G modified) It was for all intents and purposes the virtually same tractor, but the different model designation allowed a price change. In the Pripps authored books I've been reading, he holds with the traditional explaination of "9N in '39/2N in '42/8N in '48, but he defies anyone to show where FORD made that distinction. It makes logical sense, but try to find it in Ford records. I'd bet that if anyone in 1942 had any sense of the future "collectability" of any of the days tractors, better records would have surely been kept. But who knew?

The changing of features as a model went along wasn't exclusive to Ford either. Massey did it, so did others. During the 10-1/2 year production run of the US marketed 100 series, Massey changed hydraulic pumps, rear end castings, lift cylinders, tranny shifter designs, brake systems, even engine manufacturers (for the gassers) , along with many subtle improvements to the Perkins diesel line.

Just yesterday I was reading about design changes in the Deere 4020 as production went along. There were several major changes in engine design and power throughout their run.