Only those bumpers with barbed wire on them will endanger wildlife.
Is a "hybrid" barbed wire fence more friendly to wildlife?
- Thread starter plowhog
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Only those bumpers with barbed wire on them will endanger wildlife.
jaxs
Elite Member
If barbed wire endangered wildlife Texas would be littered with carcasses. As it is I see animals of all species dead on shoulder after being hit by motor vehicles but can't recall the last animal I saw dead in a fence. The ONLY reasons I can think of for using barbless wire is children and horses. Were I building a fence solely to prevent a neighbor wandering onto my property I would use 5 strands of 4 barb wire strung loosely. Why loose rather than tight? People use tight strands as steps to cross a fence but it's difficult to climb on loose strands. People hear about government taking land by escheat and some blowhard claims individuals can do the same by using property for xx years then claiming it if rightful owner fails to evict them. Could that be what your neighbor is up to?
SnagDump
Member
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I've run across deer and elk that were caught in wire fences and obviously died a horrible death when I worked for the Forest Service. It happens regularly enough that all the western state wildlife agencies have produced a publication on how to build a wildlife-friendly fence.
http://www.emwh.org/pdf/conservation/bridges/How to build fence with wildlife in mind.pdf
The key elements are height - especially for animals that have to jump a fence when they are headed uphill on a steep slope and wire spacing. The major trap is the spacing between the top two wires. An animal bumps the top wire while jumping, slides down a bit and gets their leg in front of the next wire - after the fall the leg is trapped in the twisted wires and there's no getting out. A wider spacing between those two wires helps avoid that.
Whether the fence is barbed wire or not is less of an issue. When I built our fence I put smooth wire on the top and bottom and barbed for the middle two strands. The smooth wire is the high tensile stuff and it is way more durable and easier to work with than barbed. If I had it to do over, it would be all high tensile smooth wire, and as the barbed wire breaks, I'm replacing it with high tensile. In 5 years a grand total of 1 calf has managed to get through it - probably in a depression where the 16 inch bottom wire height left an even larger gap.
http://www.emwh.org/pdf/conservation/bridges/How to build fence with wildlife in mind.pdf
The key elements are height - especially for animals that have to jump a fence when they are headed uphill on a steep slope and wire spacing. The major trap is the spacing between the top two wires. An animal bumps the top wire while jumping, slides down a bit and gets their leg in front of the next wire - after the fall the leg is trapped in the twisted wires and there's no getting out. A wider spacing between those two wires helps avoid that.
Whether the fence is barbed wire or not is less of an issue. When I built our fence I put smooth wire on the top and bottom and barbed for the middle two strands. The smooth wire is the high tensile stuff and it is way more durable and easier to work with than barbed. If I had it to do over, it would be all high tensile smooth wire, and as the barbed wire breaks, I'm replacing it with high tensile. In 5 years a grand total of 1 calf has managed to get through it - probably in a depression where the 16 inch bottom wire height left an even larger gap.
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Here's a practical suggestion - visit your local USDA County Agent with a short term plan and a long term plan for fencing this area. Ask him or her for advice. Fencing types, uses, and legal constraints vary widely from state to state. In my state, if you had livestock to fence in/out, your neighbor would be responsible for half the costs of the fence... Doubt you want to even go there from the description of the situation, even if the law were on your side (and you'd need to buy a couple of cows, LOL).
Even the "classes" of wire coatings is a separate discussion as well as the wire gauge itself. Types of posts available, another discussion. Most farmers are going to use galvanized wire of some sort (including barbed), T-posts, and treated posts, with adequate bracing or a high tensile electric fence. You don't seem to be constrained by a design for animals at this point, though. Still, over the decades, I have found the County Agent's office to be most valuable in all areas of farming (and you'll get enough reading material on fencing to last all through the coming winter's evenings).
Good Luck
Even the "classes" of wire coatings is a separate discussion as well as the wire gauge itself. Types of posts available, another discussion. Most farmers are going to use galvanized wire of some sort (including barbed), T-posts, and treated posts, with adequate bracing or a high tensile electric fence. You don't seem to be constrained by a design for animals at this point, though. Still, over the decades, I have found the County Agent's office to be most valuable in all areas of farming (and you'll get enough reading material on fencing to last all through the coming winter's evenings).
Good Luck
Torvy
Super Member
So here is my situation/plan. We want to fence our acreage for two reasons. 1, to keep people from wandering onto the property accidentally. (no reasonable fence will keep out a determined human): 2, to keep our large dogs from roaming easily (and a bit to discourage our neighbor's pit bulls from wandering onto ours).
Our plan is/was to fence the perimeter with welded/woven wire 48" on bottom with a single barbed wire strand above. T-posts with wood posts every 4th or 5th and corner braces.
Our plan is/was to fence the perimeter with welded/woven wire 48" on bottom with a single barbed wire strand above. T-posts with wood posts every 4th or 5th and corner braces.
cholland
Silver Member
This is what I am doing too. For about the same reasons. Except I am using barbless wire on the top.
I build the corners and maybe some H-braces in the long runs. Then pull a single wire (barbless). Use that to set the rest of the t-posts other wooden posts strait. Then roll the field fence out, stretch and attach. I set the top single wire just a few inches above the field fence. That is close enough together to avoid the wildlife leg entrapment mentioned earlier. The deer around here jump over it no problem.
The welded wire is cheaper, and the woven wire stouter and lasts much longer. In my case I intend to put a few goats out there eventually so I am using the woven wire
Torvy
Super Member
What purpose does a barbless wire serve on top? The barbs are to dissuade the dogs and people from climbing over.
cholland
Silver Member
My opinion - I don't like working with barb wire. I would rather my animals didn't get caught up in it.
If you really want to dissuade someone or something from climbing over, set up the top to be an electric fence wire. I have one around the bottom outside of the chicken pen. Keeps things from digging under.
If you really want to dissuade someone or something from climbing over, set up the top to be an electric fence wire. I have one around the bottom outside of the chicken pen. Keeps things from digging under.
Torvy
Super Member
I understand an electric wire instead of barbs. I just didn't understand a single strand of barb-less wire. I'd just put a little taller woven wire.
I think animals are more likely to be caught up in the woven wire than barbed. Just my opinion.
I think animals are more likely to be caught up in the woven wire than barbed. Just my opinion.
As Torvy opined, I don't quite understand a barbless top strand. While it may make you feel good (about animals), it would have little deterrent value to our woodland friends (and I have many). I do value wildlife, and understand not intentionally harming an animal (and yes, I have, and do hunt, etc.). But, there is a practical limit as to what one can do. And you decide. Barbed wire, for cattle, keeps them from collapsing your woven wire fences (as does a strand underneath your fence). But, that simply will not keep out people or dogs, or... In horse states, you will find those who put up a woven wire fence, also put up a top board...because our equine friends...aren't so smart, visually. Or an expensive board fence...
An electric fence (which I also use on the farm) will definitely deter anything. People included. Don't believe me, touch one in a grounded situation. But, what about those with pacemakers? Yep, see where I'm going...not that simple, is it?
And, I'm sorry, but the first fence made it more dangerous for wildlife. Can't really help that. As some implied, a small percentage of wildlife will be harmed and hurt by fencing. But I suspect it is a rather small percentage. And if it is proven that it is a large percentage...we should all be concerned. At this point, I doubt it, but I will defintely listen. Frankly, farmers and hunters are wildlife's best friend. We live with them and enjoy them in ways many of the folks with an agenda cannot fathom. Most of us actually revere the privilege of being out here. We aren't the enemy of wildlife - we protect it, because we live with it and enjoy it....
Gosh, fencing is the least of our problems with wildlife protection. Which is why I said go to the County Agent and ask for advice on fencing. Uhh, like, what are you really trying to do?
And, Best Regards to all who are thinking about this...
An electric fence (which I also use on the farm) will definitely deter anything. People included. Don't believe me, touch one in a grounded situation. But, what about those with pacemakers? Yep, see where I'm going...not that simple, is it?
And, I'm sorry, but the first fence made it more dangerous for wildlife. Can't really help that. As some implied, a small percentage of wildlife will be harmed and hurt by fencing. But I suspect it is a rather small percentage. And if it is proven that it is a large percentage...we should all be concerned. At this point, I doubt it, but I will defintely listen. Frankly, farmers and hunters are wildlife's best friend. We live with them and enjoy them in ways many of the folks with an agenda cannot fathom. Most of us actually revere the privilege of being out here. We aren't the enemy of wildlife - we protect it, because we live with it and enjoy it....
Gosh, fencing is the least of our problems with wildlife protection. Which is why I said go to the County Agent and ask for advice on fencing. Uhh, like, what are you really trying to do?
And, Best Regards to all who are thinking about this...