Inverter issues????? requesting input

[Boeing]

Guys,
I finished installing Solar Panels, solar charge controller, deep cycle batteries and a 400 watt (small) inverter last month.
By and large I'm happy, the panels easily keep the two batteries PLUS the tractor battery charged. I wired 5 screw-in house type fixtures for light and split the system for lights across the shop and lights over the work bench area. The inverter was just to run a desk lamp, a power drill and charge my phone.
PROBLEM ONE....I used 12V flourescent light bulbs because they use so little wattage.....but one or two were blowing PER DAY..... I took them back to the RV place where I bought them and they had been replacing them. But it's getting too freq for either of us to accept. I did buy two LED bulbs. Last week it got cold during the day and I had the doors closed and was using the lights while it was sunny outside. The solar controller was varying between 19V and 14.7 volts.....then POOF!!!! 4 (FOUR) of my flourescent bulbs went POP and out. Being the smart guy that I am:laughing: I assume that the voltage spikes were getting to the bulbs. BTW, the LED bulbs were unaffected. I'll never understand why the bulbs were failing at night when there was no overvoltage.......
PROBLEM TWO....I was using my "house" phone charger powered by the 400W inverter to charge my cell phone over night. After three nights it was almost dead??? I charged it in my car and then the next night, though SHOWING an orange charge light, it actually DISCHARGED.....
QUESTION.......Are INVERTERS a problem for ELECTRONICS? I was considering getting a larger inverter to power a MICROWAVE. Is this a problem? How about a small flat screen TV. Perhaps I should look for 12V appliances rather than INVERT a 110V product???? I saw that they make 12V TV's but have never seen one.
Soooo, what are the limitations of an inverter?
I know this is long...sorry, wanted to share my "issues" with others who might consider "off the grid":confused2:

 

[FredH]

I just have a vector 1000 watt in my semi , it charges my bluetooth and cell phone , runs my 12" t.v. , powers my 700 watt microwave or runs my m.s.i. 17" laptop , ( not all at once, but will run several at once ) . Nary a issue with anything . Basically similar setup although my batteries charge off the engine during the day while driving , but I have had that inverter for over 10 years in 2 different trucks with no issue's . With that said , What brand inverter you have ? Could be a bad inverter , ( Not bad brand , just the one you got could be ?? ) .

The tube bulbs are affected by cold ,although I thought that was just at start up thus you have " Cold Start " types that come on better when cold . Not sure also about your set-up but my thought is regardless what d.c. volts were going into the batteries while charging , ( you mentioned spikes ) , the inverter is pulling that in and converting to 110/120 without spikes , just straight a.c. voltage thus there should be no spiking on that side .

Fred H.

( with other post below , missed that you were talking 12 volt lights . My luck with those in my semi was minimal at best . Even ones at r.v. stores would last awhile then go belly up . )

 

[KYErik]

I think the flourescents are blowing because of the voltage spikes on the 12 DC volt side of the system. The batteries can take a little brief fluctuation in voltage, but the 12 volt florescent fixtures wouldn't like 19 volts. I don't think that you should run any 12 volt appliances on this system unless the controller can do a better job at regulating the voltage.

EDIT- oh wait- I see that you stated that the bulbs are failing at night when running off the batteries- hmm- that is very strange.

As to the inverter side, I think you need to hook up an AC voltmeter to see what the voltage is coming out of your inverter (verify that it is about 120 volts). I have an older 400 watt inverter. The instructions which came with it warned that it produces a square wave rather than a true sine wave- it mentioned that AC/DC transformers may overheat.

 

[Jimbrown]

There are two types of inverters square wave and sine wave. There are lots of things that do not like square wave power. It is farily complicated what works with what.

Might look at some of these:
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugex...039599a028a8df&bpcl=38897761&biw=1120&bih=572

 

[victormh]

I have a Trace(now is Xantrex) inverter is a 2.4kw 24v inverter for about 10 years,without any issues.Its been supplying power to my ham radio schack and part of the house including washing machine and the fridge.I have used it with computers,monitors,transceivers,tv's, small air compressors,small electric welding machines,ect, the only appliance that refuses to work with it was a new front loaded washing machine(maybe because is a modify sinewave inverter).Been in the Caribbean i have plenty of sun here,and i love the idea of being able to generate most of the energy I use. If you have the opportunity use another inverter and see if the described conditions persist.

 

[TRR]

Jimbrown pretty much got it, although there are 3 types, the 2 he mentioned and a "stepped square wave" also called a "modified square wave" and sometimes the words square wave are replaced with a sine wave. The farther you get from a pure sine wave the more heating and harmonics you get in the signal. And like it was mentioned, some electronics can handle this better than others.

I believe, but have not verified, that the Xantrex victormh is using is a full sine wave converter, especially if he's using it to power ham radio. I suspect harmonics are not good in the radio world.

 

[tcartwri]

We have found that plugging chargers into inverters can cause some real problems. What happens is that when the charger goes into float, the inverter senses no-load and interupts the power to the charger for a second. Then it re-connects and starts the charge cycle all over again. Almost burned the service truck down when our dewalt battery charger cooked a battery to the point that it exploded.

 

[victormh]

I'm pretty sure my inverter is of a modify sinewave type, it is the DR3624(the sinewave types begin in the model with SW), which is 3.6kw out and works with 24v dc at the input.For my radios I use a switching power supply which takes the low frequency ac and converts it to a much higher frequency(from 60 hz to the khz range) and that way it is much easier to filtrate the dc output.But this inverter is in the 1000 plus dollar range it has a pretty good design.My point is you should be able to avoid many problems with an inverter of a good design,if you can afford a true sinewave inverter the better.

 

[Soundguy]

i've had good luck with psuedosine type inverters. I do have a couple old square wave inverters.

as someone said. the farther from sine it is.. the worse it can be for SOME things.

triac supplies and other switchers really won't care at all.

ferro ressonant power supplies can burn.. as in smoke and fire..

 

[Boeing]

My Inverter is the COBRA 480. 400watts. They say nothing about sine waves or what may or may not be used. If I get a more powerful one.....what do you recommend?
For microwave, maybe TV?

 

[Barry 1]

How many watts of solar panels do you have? How do you have them wired up? There is no way you could have voltage spikes of 19v,if you have the controller hooked to the batterys,like you should. I use an inverter,and CFL's,the 12v ones are too expensive.How do you have your tractor battery tied into the system?

 

[ronjhall]

You may want to install LED's in your 12 volt light fixtures. I am completing my install using information on a RV forum. Here is a link. Inexpensive Fluorescent to LED Upgrade You will find links to other threads with even more info. I think you will find that your florescent lights do not like voltage over 14.5 vdc. Put a/some regulators on lights and your problem will be solved. Thread linked above will give you some places to get them. Many LCD/LED TV's in the smaller sizes have 120vac to 12 vdc power supplies. They can be powered by 12vdc if a regulator is put in line before TV. Most TV's with external power supplies are 26" and smaller.
I should add that you will find lots of info on solar regulators on the forum linked above.

 

[Boeing]

Guys, I have read your replies and reviewed some of the data that I had used to select my "gear".....I'm starting to think that I have a charge controller problem. I'm suprised because it is a good controller, Morningstar Tristar 45, but I should NEVER see 19V out of that controller. It's only 4 months old and WAS showing a cycling 16V and most of the time showed about 14.6. There are lots of micro switches to vary hundreds of things so mayber a call to Morningstar will help.
Somebody asked about the panels... I have two 100W panels and two deep cycle batteries.....the solar goes thru a Morningstar Tristar 45 controller. The inverter AND the light circuit are DIRECTLY wired to the batteries (I thought to give a more even 12V)
The 12V Flourescent bulbs are the spiral type with "house type" screw in bases. There is no name on them but there is a part number if anyone wants to order some. ($6.49) The LED bulbs I got thru E-bay, tried two different styles to judge which works best; one looks like a normal bulb and has 6 bright LED's within the normal type bulb, about $18. The other LED bulb is odd looking....screw in base, then 3" diameter bottom unit and a 1.5" extension like a "ray gun" from the '50's. They were only about $7.00 and BOTH style LED's lived thru this voltage spike that I described in my initial post. Both LED's put out equal light.....not quite as bright as the 15W (60 watt equivilent) flourescents. They do use only 7Watts which is great for battery power.
Another question was asked about how I charge the tractor battery when I'm gone....I just hook up a set of jumper cables to the two "house batteries" and the tractor making the solar charge THREE batteries instead of two. Seems to work.
So, I'm planning on talking to Morningstar and looking for a "good" inverter that might not hurt electronics. It all boils down to how much money you can spend doesn't it.........life goes on.:confused2:

 

[dave1949]

We have found that plugging chargers into inverters can cause some real problems. What happens is that when the charger goes into float, the inverter senses no-load and interupts the power to the charger for a second. Then it re-connects and starts the charge cycle all over again. Almost burned the service truck down when our dewalt battery charger cooked a battery to the point that it exploded.

When our house was being built we didn't have utility power yet, everything was powered from our Honda generator. I noticed that when the contractor plugged in his cordless tool charger, I think it was a Dewalt, the 6500 watt generator would kick up it's rpms like it had a real load on it, but of course that is only a small load. Our generator has never caused any problems with electronics. I think it has a fairly clean sinusoidal output but I've never had an oscilloscope on it.