Internet sales?

Anonymous Poster · May 18, 2003

I have been searching around my area for a nice green or orange tractor. Orange seems to give you more for your money but are not as readily available. I saw an ad in this classified for a BX22 at Emerich Tractor in New York advertised for $14999.00 did all the appropiate paperwork over the phone and got financing in order. We are good to go except he hasn't any right now expects them by May's end. Should I wait seeing that his deal beats all by $3000.00 with all the attachments we ordered? Plus is this dealer a real dealer has anyone else had any experiances with him? I am very leary of sending $$$ to an address that I have never visited. Plus time is money so by June 1 I will need a tractor and may need to look around. Local dealers wont touch the deal they cannot see how they can sell for that price.

Carl_NH · May 18, 2003

Oildude4,

Emerich is a real dealer, as others have bought from them. Do a search on TBN for Emerich to see other responses.

On waiting for delivery, time is money, and only you can determine what that is worth. Also shipping costs and need or desire for local service outweigh the difference in cost for many buyers.

That said many here have had good experiences in long distance transactions with other 'internet' dealers. It is a personal choice.

Good luck in your decision.

Carl

icat · May 18, 2003

As far as waiting goes, there are only 9 business days left in May (holiday weekend takes one). I'm pretty sure you'd be had pressed to find anyone who wouldn't wait that long for $3000. Unless you can use the tractor during the week, then the only time you'll really be without is this coming weekend - which is a holiday anyway.

As far as money goes - if the financing is through Kubota then you have no worries (and I can't imaging going anywhere else for financing with the deals Kubota has).

On your local dealer pricing - different dealers have different MLB costs (material, labor, burden). If they feel they can not profit from the sale then they will need to pass on the deal. I sell computers and I often "walk away" from a sale when I can't turn a reasonable profit. Got to cover cost or I'll go out of business.

I haven't priced BX22's so I don't know if your deal is a good one or not. But if you've got a dealer who can't touch the price, then it's probably a good deal. I e-mailed and contacted 5 dealers for quotes on my L3130. That's about the minimum number I would suggest for "price shopping". Might send out a few more requests for bid and see what else you can stir up locally.

GaryG · May 18, 2003

That sounds like a great price for a BX22 right now. The tax savings should cover the shipping up to you. What implements are you getting beside the loader & backhoe? That is a very good price for just the BX22TLB.

Rick Jay · May 18, 2003

GaryG,

( The tax savings should cover the shipping up to you.)

I don't think I'd plan on saving anything with the tax. Massachusetts is one of the states that expects one to pay sales tax on out of state purchases. Now, if you don't tell 'em, you might get away with it. But the more paper trails you leave (a large purchase, financing, insuring, shipping, etc.) the better the chance that the Mass. D.O.R. will find out about it. Especially in these times, and with a neighboring state, you're really asking for an audit. Then, they'll nail you for the tax AND penalties AND interest.

The Mass. D.O.R. folks are not known for their friendliness. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

~Rick

Rick Jay · May 18, 2003

Here's a link that mentions the "use tax" due in Massachusetts if an item is purchased out of state.

Mass. D.O.R. link

As Snuffy Smith used to say: "Dang revenooers!". (O.K., I'm probably dating myself on that reference.)

~Rick

GaryG · May 18, 2003

Do they try to collect sales tax on mail order purchases? Even California doesn't try to do that. I thought there was a federal court that threw out a case where a state tried to collect taxes on a purchase in another state. It is difficult to avoid taxes on cars that have to be registered. I did not think tractors were registered anywhere. I have seen several dealers making that part of the sales appeal. I sure would fight it.

Rick Jay · May 18, 2003

GaryG,

( Do they try to collect sales tax on mail order purchases? )

Trust me, I have NO experience in this area and will deny that I ever purchased anything out of state to avoid paying tax. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

O.K....revenooer's gone? I believe most people in any state that has such a law make purchases in other states without submitting the "use tax" to their home state. However, the law does seem to be quite clear that it is, in fact, due if not paid in the state in which it was purchased.

Automobiles are a no-brainer...they nail you for those without even working for it when you register it. A tractor could be a different issue. I believe banks are required to report transactions over $10,000, loans require filing in the state where the owner lives, insurance forms just might generate some interest too! Then, heaven forbid, the tractor is involved in an accident and during the investigation of who rightfully owns the piece of equipment, it will become obvious that the tax wasn't paid.

In this day and age, with all the electronic "snooping" that can be done with just a couple of keystrokes, one is taking a gamble that they won't get caught. IF you're the gambling type, then more power to you. (My limited exposure to the Mass D.O.R. was not pleasant...and the error was THEIRS, not mine. But trying to correct it was a nightmare.)

Personally, I decided to support my local dealer, and that included paying the taxes due to the great Commonwealth of Taxachusetts. The shipping charges (from a well-known internet dealer) would have been about 60% of the tax. I figured the more "secure" route was to stay local. I did use those distant dealers to negotiate a better price. However, if I had to pay shipping AND Mass. tax, my local dealer offered me a better price.

I'm not a lawyer or accountant or CPA, just a lowly Electrical Engineer, so this is way out of my specialty. I don't have deep enough pockets to try to fight any of these issues, so I just try to follow the rules as best I can. Pretty boring, I know. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

My $0.02. (I hope I don't have to pay my "use tax" on that too! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Actually, I guess you will, if you "use" my advice. Make your checks payable to Mass D.O.R. mail to: P.O. Box..... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

~Rick

rsatter22 · May 18, 2003

In Ohio, we are to declare out of state purchases on our state income tax returns each year, so the state gets the taxes with the income taxes.
RDS

DougM · May 19, 2003

So I live in Ohio and do I pay taxes on all internet purchases

Well...... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

If any one has a good idea on how not to pay taxes....

I wouold like to hear more PLEASE

Doug

JohnMiller3 · May 19, 2003

...how not to pay taxes... 

Find a tax-free zone...

and move... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Anonymous Poster · May 19, 2003

Oildude
I just took delivery of a B2910 from Emerich. They are great to work with. They are a real dealer-go visit them if you have questions on this. I am sure you will be very happy buying from them. They did what they promised when they promised it. You cant ask for more. If you have any specific questions on Emerich send me a email.

Rick Jay · May 19, 2003

MIKED

And you're fortunate enough to live in a state that doesn't have an income tax /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif......yet /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif.

My brother moved to NH for that very reason. He was in MA, then VT, then CA, then back to VT and finally moved and settled in NH, mostly due to the tax situation.

"The Old Man in the Mountain" just came tumbling down....can an income tax be really that far behind? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Good Luck with that "Live Free or Die" motto...it's getting harder and harder to maintain our "freedoms".

~Rick

bmac · May 19, 2003

My dealer was somewhat surprised when I declined the Ag exemption for sales tax. I told him I do not qualify. His response was "everybody else does it." Well, as much as I dislike taxes, it didn't seem ethical to me and certainly wasn't worth the risk. I am glad he agreed with me.

Anonymous Poster · May 19, 2003

Thankyou to all who took the time to reply to my post. I am much more assured now that I have read your reply's. Asside from the tax savings Emerich is a couple hundred dollars cheaper on all of the implements as well. I am going to wait this one out and savor in the $$$ I saved. The little boy in me wants to play with the tractor now but he can wait. I am purchasing the tractor with a 54" mowing deck, Bagger system, 5' Rake, and a front sweeper system. I live on a private road that the town doe's not really maintain. I also live on a lake with a beach that is the reason for the rake. My wife and I love to be home and work in the yard. The Kubota BX22 looked like the best fit for us all around. I also ordered a block heater just in case we purchase the snowblower in the future. Good old New England.

GaryG · May 19, 2003

I also opted to buy my BX22 from a local California dealer as that is where I have a small farm. California is a pro agricultural state so they reduce the sales tax to 2.75% for tractors used in an agricultural venture. I am an Alaska resident and as of yet we do not have sales tax. So when I buy anything mail order I do not feel compelled to send the governor of California a check for the taxes even if that is where I will be using that item. I can't believe if you order a camera from NY as millions of people do, that you would even consider paying sales tax on it. Maybe I am missing out on the pleasures of helping in the waste of money. I would move from a state that was that desparate to get my money. Sales tax on Internet sales is a big issue. But as far as I know it has not been settled in court in favor of any state. I could be wrong.

Rick Jay · May 19, 2003

GaryG,

A reference in the Mass D.O.R. page mentions a case dated in 1974, so this predates the internet sales issue by quite some time. Currently, I think it's too much trouble for the state to track down small purchases, such as the NY camera you mentioned. They rely on the "volunteer" system. However, as the purchase price increases and the amount of tax evaded proportionately increases, then it might well be worth someone's time to track down a single purchase with a $1,000 tax that hasn't been paid.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong (although I don't like it), I'm just saying that's the way the law is written, and to the best of my knowledge, it hasn't been challenged successfully in this state.

My understanding is that CA might be in worse fiscal shape than MA, so you might want to hold on to your wallet and keep that address in Alaska active. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

You and I kind of live in "sister" states, even though we're on opposite ends of the mainland. We both seem to have our share of misguided politicians. I sure wish some of them would move out to the mid-west. (C'mon...doesn't ANYBODY else want Teddy Kennedy as senator of their state. Please? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif We'll through in John F. Kerry for FREE!) Anyway, I've been to San Diego, and neither of us have to travel too far to see signage in English y Espanol. I don't think that's too common in the heartland of this great country.

We're all in this together, and hopefully the politicians can work out an equitable solution. Until then, those of you in the less taxed states...enjoy it while you can.

~Rick

Anonymous Poster · May 19, 2003

I'll ask my wife when she gets home as she still works weekends and some nights for a CPA firm in Framingham. However, she mentioned before, Mass doesn't have to track you down when financing a tractor as a UCC filing is completed, therefore will do the tracking for Mass DOR..

JaimesEarl · May 19, 2003

As Snuffy Smith used to say: "Dang revenooers!". (O.K., I'm probably dating myself on that reference.)

Hey Rick - You seem to be pretty caught up on state sales tax laws. I just want to let you know there will be no levy for borrowing your Snuffy Smith line from my post of about a week ago. One difference - the system ommited my da__ word 'cause mine ended in mn...

JE

p.s. Don't worry about it though, I won't tell anyone - especially the IRS. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Rick Jay · May 19, 2003

Awww...thanks for not collectin' the due "use tax", JaimesEarl /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif.

Sorry, I must've missed your post last week. It's reassuring to know that there are others that like to use obscure references. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Oops...'scuse me...the still needs some tendin'.... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

~Rick