Inexpensive Welding Solution?????

[HomeBrew2]

Tourch welding is a art. It can be done and done close to as good as electric welding ...

Wow!, that's cool! I was an artist at age 15 then. Gas was all we had at home. Never thought it was an art though, even at age 50, stuff happens so slow with real fire, the puddle is easy to develop and control. I wasn't even allowed to use filler rod till I could successfully "fuse" steel with repeated uniformity and prove the structure under use. I was told that I was "lucky" that I didn't have to heat the steel till cherry red then hammer it to make the joint like real men used to have to do. Indeed, I felt lucky.
Interestingly, as neat as gas welding is, it actually performes two functions ... 1) welding 2) anealing everything in the general area of the torch. ... not sure how it really compares to 'lectric welding in that regard ... but I have a pretty good idea that's one small reason nobody does much gas welding anymore.
Gas welding steel ... an art? Maybe. In my book gas welding aluminum is an art ... maybe even black magic. I saw it done once

 

[thingy]

Yep,,no doubt,,act/oxy,,welding is an art,,,been along time since I even tried it,,,but never was that good at it,,could fix your brush hog crack,with it,,[still could],but,,welding pipe,,another thing,,,I've mended holey muffelers with a cutting torch and cracked frames on motorcycles with a welding tip,,but never was one of the old timers with it,,,lost art for sure,,tig is much like it,,but,,,,,to the poster,,,get you a ac/dc buzz box type machine,,you gotta have the juice to run it though,,talk to an electrician,,,if you don't/can't get the juice to run it,,get you a gas powered welder generator,,,dc,,,puts out 180 -200 amps,,,stick machine,,,thingy

 

[HomeBrew2]

... mended holey muffelers with a cutting torch ...

Yep, still use the cutting torch to braze, weld, silver solder ... just turn the ox down a ways and work quick

 

[Mith]

kwolfe,
just go down to harbour freight and look at the stick welders there. Get the most expensive you can afford. Even the cheapest ones are real good, you wont be disappointed.
It'll do 1/2" plate if you weld both sides. It wont be a perfect weld, but it'll hold up. 1/4" plate wont be a problem.
Steel is surprisingly strong, you probably wont need to do much 1/2" stuff.

 

[bobodu]

I wouldn't spend a dime for a welder at HF unless I was absolutely sure that there wasn't a Lincoln 225 for sale within a hundred miles.
Paid $80 for this at an auction...and the gas powered welder was given to me!! Just needed sparkies and a coat of paint.

 

[patrick_g]

I have a Lincoln Lunchbox, the Weldpak 100 which will weld up to 1/4 inch with multi-pass. It needs a 20 amp 120VAC outlet and works fine with my small portable generator. It uses flux cored wire so you don't need shielding gas. It is over 20 years old, works perfectly, and gets noting but abuse. I know I have exceeded the duty cycle when it shuts itself off.

There are similar Lincoln units available at Lowe's etc. When you go to larger more potent 240 vac models that can do 1/4 inch mild steel single pass and 1/2 inch multi-pass the $ goes way up!

You are unlikely to find a 120vac welder that will come close to giving a good weld on 1/2 inch, it is just not happening as 120 volts at 20 amps is 2400 watts. If the machine were 100% efficient (and they aren't!) you'd get about 100 amps of AC welding current which is not going to do 1/2 inch.

Like to try way out solutions to save $$? Save up your rust and powdered aluminum and try thermite!

They call the simple AC welders buzz boxes because the transformer in them buzzes under heavy load.

One of the best suggestions was to get a welder good enough for a lot of stuff and tack heavy materials together with it and take the project to someone with a BIG MACHINE. 1/2 inch steel takes a fairly HD machine to get decent penetration. There is more to welding 1/2 inch steel than just sticking it together with little bird doodoo surface beads.

Pat

 

[gemini5362]

,,but,,,,who in the **** is to busy to do a job right,,,,that mig marketer who invented this,,my machine will weld 1/4 inch in one pass,,,musta been a genious,,,,but,,,still,,thats not how you go about welding something,,,no matter how they advertise them,,,,,,thingy

well there are times when I cannot do a job right. I have to do the best I can. As far as the mig welder welding 1/4 inch in one pass. I do that with a mig. I dont know if it is right or not. I do not do commercial work I only build things for myself. I do know that everything I have welded has held up to whatever abuse I put it to. I also know that it is a lot easier for me to weld with a mig than it is with a stick or a tig unit.

 

[HomeBrew2]

... I have exceeded the duty cycle when it shuts itself off.
...

A simple household fan pointed at the welder will extend the duty cycle to near 100% ... at least it does for my toy HF wirewelder

 

[gemini5362]

A simple household fan pointed at the welder will extend the duty cycle to near 100% ... at least it does for my toy HF wirewelder

Thank yoIu for this tip. One of the reasons I hesitated about buying the miller DVI is a low duty cycle. I finally decided that I do not do that much welding and if it shut off then I could just drink a soda and wait for it to cool down. I will try this method out if I have any problems

 

[patrick_g]

Decent rigs have internal fans and supplemental fans outside blowing on the case will not make enough difference to warrant the time it takes to position them and plug them in. HF is excluded by the decent rig comment.

If you want to super cool the welder build a plenum box the size of the air intake on the welder and install a powerful blower feeding into that plenum. This will put air where it needs to be and actually assist the internal fan.

Pat

 

[HomeBrew2]

Fair enough. You hit the duty limit of your machine, not I You are welcome to just give my redneck cooling scheme a try if your machine peters out again though ... it's free and easy

 

[patrick_g]

Homebrew2, Unfortunately it is a bit like pouring water on top of your car to cool an overheated engine. Very little if any of the cooling effect gets to where it is needed.

Back in my free lance days I was hired to make a portable battery operated welder experimental prototype into a manufacturable product. Previous folks had done some cost cutting. They noted that the big finned extruded aluminum heat sinks were expensive so they built their own from light weight aluminum sheet using a kick shear and a box and pan break (home made U channels.) When operating, the fins were cooled very well by the very healthy internal fan (they hadn't got around to economizing on the fan yet.) Still the power transistors were burning out like crazy. It seems the transistors where they touched the home made heat sink look alike were hot enough to melt solder but were cool to the touch a couple inches away. The fan removed all the heat that got out in the fins but the base of the fins was so thin it didn't conduct the heat fast enough.

I designed a new heat sink to be extruded and SHAZAM, no heating problem.

Put another way... If you sit on a cake of ice it will not prevent blistering if you touch hot metal with a finger. The cooling needs to be where the heating is.

Pat

 

[gemini5362]

Wow, Maybe I will just go back to the sit on my hind end and drink a soda plan while I am waiting for it to cool down. That is provided I have a problem. I have not had a chance to use my welder yet to see how it is going to work.

 

[digger2]

Just came back from Lowes,you can get a 225 ac Lincoln for about $260.
ALSO,if somebody wants a light duty acetylene torch outfit,my local Lowes also has a Harris setup complete minus tanks for $178.I personally dont think the Harris brand is the best torch in the world,but i dont think they are the worst either.And a torch ,even a less expensive model ,is nice to have around in case you want to rough cut something,or heat it for bending.
Thats all i really have mine for,i dont use it for any welding purposes.
digger2

 

[thingy]

Well,,lets see,,,maybe can't help none but,,,you weld with what you can handle,,,if you are making descent welds of what ever size with one pass,,and thats as big as you need,,than you're done!,,,,its just,,that what if you can't make a descent weld with one pass,,and fill up the joint to your satisfaction,,,you gotta add more metal,,,multipass,,,multipass welding is like,,each pass is first one,,,you just keep on sticking metal to the first layer,,,if you clean it right between passes and grind the humps,,etc,,,thats what your doing,,,,,its hard to describe,,but if you was welding a three inch plate to another 3 inch plate,,,bevelded or fillit,,,you know you can't put enough weld metal on in one pass with most welding applications,,right,,,no matter how hot you are burning, even if you are using .45 wire or 5/32 rods,,,you know one pass won't be enough,,so,,in this case,,you gotta go more than one pass,,,same thing if you are using .030 or .035 or 3/32 rod,on 1/2 inch thick steel,,,,one pass ain't gonna do it,,,so you make multiple passes there too,,,,is just the way you go into it,,,welders don't look at the thickness of there joint and say well,,its 2 inches,,so I need 1 inch rod and 1,000 amp machine so's I can get her,,they prepare joint,,[bevel],,and make multiple passes,,either by stringer or weave,,,,,,once you get this in your head,,you don't worry about filling joint up with one pass,,,you make a nice weld,,clean,,grind as you need,,and add more,,when you got enough,,you stop,,,,you always make at least three passes over one another when welding pressure pipe,,,,this is by hand,,not machine,,,this is to stop pinholes,,[old timers saying],,,,but,,,what can I say,,,thingy

 

[Casey1]

,,,welders don't look at the thickness of there joint and say well,,its 2 inches,,so I need 1 inch rod and 1,000 amp machine so's I can get her,, - thingy

That is funny. I have fallen for that 1/2" in one pass stuff hook line and sinker but I think you just cured me of doing it again.

I had to wear my eyes out to read through all the commas but it was worth it. LOL

 

[HomeBrew2]

Homebrew2, Unfortunately ...

patrick_g, FORTUNATELY my car is not overheating and I am not so drunk as to want to put water on top of the car.

Interestingly, my obviously ignornatly conceived idea of additionally cooling my un-decent toy welder came from the following situation:
I have a habit of cranking my totally inadequate stereo amplifier past the point of clipping when I get out of control (weekly). The totally inadequate amplifier shuts down, as it should. I promptly point a common 16" table fan toward my totally inadequate stereo amplifier and the amp starts up again, and continues quite nicely for an unlimited time. ... as does my un-decent toy welder in 110° summer heat.
My stereo amp and toy welder both have internal fans ... they just need extra help on occasion.
Again, YOU mentioned that YOUR decent welder shut off when pushed to the limit. Mine works fine, past it's limit, with additional external air flow, as much as you prefer to poo poo the notion.

 

[Egon]

Thingy; would there not be a point at which the small welders cannot produce enough heat to get a proper weld on thick materials?

Doesn't the grinding and chipping between welds help eliminate those nasty little pin holes and slag incursions that them nasty inspectors always find with the pictures?

 

[bobodu]

Back before I got some decent welders,I bought a $40 (yep $40) 100 amp 220v stick from Homier tool because I needed something welded quick.It'd run maybe twenty seconds before shutting down.I took off the cover and directed a fan inside.It improved to thirty seconds.Some extruded aluminum heat sinks and thermal adhesive kept her going for 40 seconds.Used that $40 POS for a year....gave it away,but I had gotten my money's worth.

 

[thingy]

Egon,,yeah,,guess some of those little things they sell might not make enough heat to melt wire/rod and base metal properly,,,but any welder that will produce enough amps to properly burn what ever wire or rod your using,[size I mean],you should be able to multipass weld with,its just that if its thick,,you may end up making many passes and many starts and stops and that ain't real good either,[not to mention it might take you forever].
Just saying that you don't go about thinking you have to weld something in just one pass,[unless you are factory produceing something,maybe a small fillit weld],,for alot of stuff,yeah,one pass might get it,,but for something thick,,or beveled,,you need to make more than one pass,,take a crack for example in 1/4-3/8 inch steel,,,if you can just weld it from one side,,you bevel it out,,make a root,,clean/grind,fill maybe one pass,clean/grind,and cap.Thats how you repair a crack,,even when welding thinner stuff,,I alllways,[generally] make a root,and at least one cover over it,,just works better,,not talking sheet metal here,,,course you gotta clean,brush,you gotta grind out high spots,so you will have a even/clean surface to weld over.
You are really limiting yourself if you think you got to weld every thing in one pass,,on something thinner,you might really be able to make a better looking weld,if you run a smaller first pass and than a cap over it,,and on something thicker you won't be trying to burn so hot that you are burning holes and carry so much metal that you can't weld out of flat postion cause you think you got to fill it in one pass,,,thingy