Buying Advice In search of a sub-compact tractor

[Carl_NH]

L3301HST in 4 wheel drive looks pretty sweet to me! That tractor without any attachments is going to be the heaviest tractor you will be able to tow without an upgraded truck license, if that is of any concern. It is at least one step up in size from the one I now have and much closer to the Ford 1900 that I previously owned.

The backhoe added to a little tractor is fairly limited, a finger is not going to do all that much for you. Working a backhoe hard on a tractor like these can be hard on the tractor if you over-tax it. They are great for trenching and that is about it. If you need to move serious amounts of material or pluck trees out of the ground and pick them up you are going to need a serious excavator like the one I just bought last week:

it has a finger, plus a 27 foot reach with 19 tons of lift.

Now that's a machine! If I had regular use requirements for one that would be the ticket.

Regarding small backhoes, I respectfully disagree with the "limited capability" you refer, as I would not be without a BH and thumb and they can do so much more than a bucket only.

I have done smaller stumps, built rock walls, dug and trenched a lot, use the thumb for holding firewood and a whole lot of other things. Now, when I have real stumps (24-36") and any major excavation I hire my neighbor with a 70000 LB machine, but for the average Joe, the little BH can get a lot of work done vs using a pick and shovel.

Now on the subject of toughness, the dedicated TLB models from Kubota (B21-26, L35-45, M59) are purpose built with a loader and BH. There are subtle but big differences like upgraded axles and frame parts along with other things. Now with a 3 PT BH what you state is correct - they can break tractors if not installed with a sub frame. I believe most Kubota's today only come with a subframe today.

For the original poster and his stated uses, the BX25 is a bit small, but the B2650 or even better the L series would be a perfect size and with a BH he would be able to do the majority of his tasks listed but not as fast or efficient as the excavator..

 

[Trials]

...
So I would 1st focus on reliability.
To that end I'd narrow the grouping to equipment that is designed and engineered by long time engine builders who expanded to full tractor building over many years:
Yanmar, Kubota, or Iseki (Massey).

New Holland, LS, Mahindra, Kioti etc. All may have some fine product . . but when reliability and long warranties and good manufacturer insurance policies are important I'd stick with the 3 I listed...

:scratchchin: You do realize New Holland is the current product line from a little company called Ford.
And the engine in a New Holland Boomer is made by Yanmar, yes?

The engine in my Hyundai excavator is a Cummins, sometimes you have to look under the hood and do some research to know what you are really buying.

 

[TheMan419]

:scratchchin: You do realize New Holland is the current product line from a little company called Ford. And the engine in a New Holland Boomer is made by Yanmar, yes? The engine in my Hyundai excavator is a Cummins, sometimes you have to look under the hood and do some research to know what you are really buying.

Plus a longer warrantee usually means the manufacturer believes it will last longer. They don't want to pay for repairs.

However having a dealer nearby is pretty important.

 

[AxleHub]

:scratchchin: You do realize New Holland is the current product line from a little company called Ford.
And the engine in a New Holland Boomer is made by Yanmar, yes?

The engine in my Hyundai excavator is a Cummins, sometimes you have to look under the hood and do some research to know what you are really buying.

Greetings Trials,

If you read my post you will notice that I talked about 3 engine makers who already years ago started engineering entire tractors . . . not just engines.

My point is (and was) . . . that if you are somewhat isolated in an area from service centers . . then go with manufacturers that don't just sell engines but sell entire units because they engineer everything that way but the loaders.

Yanmar engines are good but tractors made and engineered by them are better in my opinion (regardless the name on the tractor. You say New Holland and I think of LS. Hyundai has a Cummins engine . . But the rest of the excavator is made by ???? Hyundai ???

 

[s219]

In my review I seem to cycle back to the B 2650 as a much sturdier unit than a BX BUT not as heavy and large as the L series. I also would like to consider the extra HP of the B 3350 but am not confident the Tier IV pollution equipment is working correctly yet and "most" seem to advise no getting the B 3350 unless you REALLY want/need the extra HP.

The B2650/3350 is very close in dimensions to a small L, and in fact I think the B has a longer wheelbase by a little. It can even get the same size tires as an option on the 3350. The big difference is weight/construction -- the L is much beefier and weighs a lot more. That means the L can work a lot harder and will be better for ground engaging work where traction is important. I think the main advantage of the B would be lighter weight in cases where ground compaction was an issue, or to get a cab, which is not available on the smaller L models.

 

[AxleHub]

So North,

I posted about 3 tractor manufacturers that build their own engines and engineer their own tractors.

Now I'd look at your wish list and compare it to what you are used to. My point would be that I just got done doing something for the first time with my scut.

Had I listened to the "bigger is better" opinions . . . I'd be very unhappy right about now (today) . . because a cut would have not allowed me to do most of what I just did . . . while a scut did.

I could have made a wish list similar to yours . . but I prioritized heavily. I wanted a tractor that coyld cut very well on a large lawn and drive on it easily. I wanted something very safe on hills and slopes and uncertain ground.

I wanted hauling with regular trailer or very large garden trailer. I wanted fork lifting and dirt work and grapple ability fir hauling logs/dead trees.

If it was too big to be on a nice yard . . It wasn't for me. Thats why I bought a strong solid scut and hire out big work.

 

[Trials]

... But the rest of the excavator is made by ???? Hyundai ???

Correct, Hyundai, the same people who build stuff like this:

they build boats too: http://www.2b1stconsulting.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/hyundai-heavy-industries_Shipbuilding.jpg

 

[DK35vince]

Correct, Hyundai, the same people who build stuff like this:

And this
Hyundai CE | Skid Steer Loaders & Excavator Specialists

 

[Clipse3GT]

I made the choice as well when working on my property between a CUT vs. SCUT. I have 5 acres half wooded and half lawn. I need something that would not damage the lawn when I need to get some work done on it as well as it would be able to do smaller stumps, dig some trenches to run wires/lines/drainage, move firewood, move mulch / top soil, etc...

I think that a Kubota L model would have been too much to be maneuverable in tighter spaces. While a BX or B would be the right size. The price between a BX and B loaded to same specs is about 10k more for the B per MSRP. In reality the B can do only a bit more than a SCUT can do. Sure sometimes you need that bit more but I think people have to think really hard what they will use the machine ultimately for. I agree buy a machine that will 90% of tasks at hand. If you need more rent it out it will be cheaper to spend $300 for something to use one day vs. paying $10k for a larger machine.

The enemy of good is better... sometimes too much machine will hinder you more than help if you can't get it to the job site or will destroy a lawn before getting to the job site and you have to fix it again. I think for your property a Small CUT would be the ticket to do 90% of those tasks.

Best would be to ask a dealer to drop off a SCUT and CUT to test what will be right for your property if it is possible at all.

 

[Agvg]

New Holland has very little to do with Ford, it is run from Italy.

 

[TSO]

New Holland has very little to do with Ford, it is run from Italy.

Nothing, actually... Case-NH is now owned by Fiat. Nothing left to do with Ford.

 

[northtractorsearch]

Thank you everyone for your continuing insights, I am reading all of the points and considering them all. A lot of them are aspects I may not have considered

 

[jenkinsph]

Good luck choosing the right equipment and recommend you figure out what you need to do for the long term goals.

 

[check]

Jesus what a machine. I would only be able to use that in the winter when the ground is frozen, or mid-summer during a dryspell or it would destroy everything! I shall give Kubota north a call, I'm nowhere near them right now but you know - maybe I can be convinced. As far as price and spending money, I'm not rich, but I have no need to get something that will definitely be too small as I already have enough "struggle" to go around. From what it sounds like, I should be looking for something on the slightly larger end. Also it sounds like the Deere is kind expensive relatively speaking. How long ago did you buy yours Check?

I bought mine in the fall of 2008, and later found out that I virtually stole it, because everyone else was over $19,000, and the dealer also threw in a free three point hitch. Today the MSRP is $23,000, but I bet you could get a couple thousand dollars off of that for simply asking.

If you live in Milton, drive in to Toronto to have a look, because Kooy Brothers has a B 2650 sitting on their lot, and it has the mower on it. They are just off the 401, and you take the Weston Road exit. I believe they also have a BX 25 sitting inside the store.

One thing to remember: the BX 25 is much more stable if you have uneven ground. You will notice that the B 2650 sits a lot higher.

Keep us posted!

 

[AxleHub]

North,

A couple things I like in smaller tractors:

1. Forward engine cooling. Kubota, Massey/Iseki, and some Yanmar have their radiator and fan to the rear of the engine and air is blown forward instead of sucked in from the front. It keeps the engine compartment and operator much cleaner and keeps the operator cooler and is very efficient engine cooling also.

2. Differential lock . . . Greatly enhances traction under troubled conditions (in addition to 4 wheel drive). I'd be hard pressed to not have this feature.

3. Mid mount mower decks. Good scut brands offer SEVERAL deck options in each brand. If someone tells you scuts don't do a goods job of cutting grass . . it means they cut way too fast or used the wrong deck. My Massey mulcher deck looks as good or better than my zero turn produced and its commercial grade construction and rides smooth even on washboard lawn.

4. Insurance programs can be very inexpensive and beneficial when you look at the coverages vs costs - with products from the 3 makers I mentioned being especially attractive for things homeowners insurance doesn't cover.

5. The 3 brands I previously mentioned tyically have many add-on implements either produced by them directly or offered by several specifc 3rd party providers. Why is that different than other brands? Because the implements are sized for the capacities of the units so that payload/working load are not reduced. Often better strength to weight ratios or steel choices and designs.

 

[jenkinsph]

North,

A couple things I like in smaller tractors:

1. Forward engine cooling. Kubota, Massey/Iseki, and some Yanmar have their radiator and fan to the rear of the engine and air is blown forward instead of sucked in from the front. It keeps the engine compartment and operator much cleaner and keeps the operator cooler and is very efficient engine cooling also.

2. Differential lock . . . Greatly enhances traction under troubled conditions (in addition to 4 wheel drive). I'd be hard pressed to not have this feature.

3. Mid mount mower decks. Good scut brands offer SEVERAL deck options in each brand. If someone tells you scuts don't do a goods job of cutting grass . . it means they cut way too fast or used the wrong deck. My Massey mulcher deck looks as good or better than my zero turn produced and its commercial grade construction and rides smooth even on washboard lawn.

4. Insurance programs can be very inexpensive and beneficial when you look at the coverages vs costs - with products from the 3 makers I mentioned being especially attractive for things homeowners insurance doesn't cover.

5. The 3 brands I previously mentioned tyically have many add-on implements either produced by them directly or offered by several specifc 3rd party providers. Why is that different than other brands? Because the implements are sized for the capacities of the units so that payload/working load are not reduced. Often better strength to weight ratios or steel choices and designs.

My Deere x749 mower has all of these points covered.

 

[northtractorsearch]

North,

A couple things I like in smaller tractors:

1. Forward engine cooling. Kubota, Massey/Iseki, and some Yanmar have their radiator and fan to the rear of the engine and air is blown forward instead of sucked in from the front. It keeps the engine compartment and operator much cleaner and keeps the operator cooler and is very efficient engine cooling also.

2. Differential lock . . . Greatly enhances traction under troubled conditions (in addition to 4 wheel drive). I'd be hard pressed to not have this feature.

3. Mid mount mower decks. Good scut brands offer SEVERAL deck options in each brand. If someone tells you scuts don't do a goods job of cutting grass . . it means they cut way too fast or used the wrong deck. My Massey mulcher deck looks as good or better than my zero turn produced and its commercial grade construction and rides smooth even on washboard lawn.

4. Insurance programs can be very inexpensive and beneficial when you look at the coverages vs costs - with products from the 3 makers I mentioned being especially attractive for things homeowners insurance doesn't cover.

5. The 3 brands I previously mentioned tyically have many add-on implements either produced by them directly or offered by several specifc 3rd party providers. Why is that different than other brands? Because the implements are sized for the capacities of the units so that payload/working load are not reduced. Often better strength to weight ratios or steel choices and designs.

Do you know the cases where SCUTs have locking differentials? I looked in the Deere catalogue I have and it doesn't seem to indicate it

 

[jenkinsph]

The Deere 1025R has differential lock.

 

[AxleHub]

Do you know the cases where SCUTs have locking differentials? I looked in the Deere catalogue I have and it doesn't seem to indicate it

In scuts of the 3 I had listed here are ones I recall have a differential lock:

Cub Cadet and Yanmar sc2400 and sc2450 did.

Yanmar 324 and 424 but not the 221. SX series and EX series did.

Massey/Iseki. GC2400 series and newer GC1700 series and the 1500 series. I don't remember on the 1700 series.

Kubota BX series did have . . I believe the 2015s did but not certain.

 

[AxleHub]

My Deere x749 mower has all of these points covered.

I'm familiar with the x728 which is a 27 hp kawasaki gas . . . with 60 inch ride over mmm $12,000 with nofront valve, 3 pt hitch or fel. How does the x749 differ?