In-Home Multiple Dog Management

[jimmyj]

Quite a conundrum Prokop. We almost always have 4 dogs and we've had a few problems over the years as well. Currently, we have a very unusual problem with a very large rescue dog who had aggression problems and a pig headedly stubborn Austrailian Cattle dog who won't submit.

We've really worked with the big dog and his aggression is almost completely gone (I can take food from his mouth but he still tenses up and growls). However the cattle dog is such an instinctively programmed dog he wants to be the boss and attacks the big guy. Then, all heck breaks loose. We have resorted to keeping them separately all day, every day, forever. They are fine in shifts with the other two dogs, but when they do get out together the odd time YIKES. Once, they were scrapping and I threw the cattle dog in my SUV. They tried to attack each other through the windsheild and broke it!!

Anyhow, we almost put the big guy down when we first got him but he's really turning into a sucky baby and we love them all. They all are magic with kids and the farm animals, but sometimes two dogs just won't get along.

I don't know if shifting your dogs is possible Prokop, and it's troubling that the one attacks right away. Tough situation you have there. Good luck.

 

[schmism]

you want dog advise... watch the dog whisper.

He can teach you proper pack management and what it takes to ASSERT yourself as pack leader.

how 1) and 2) are wrong.

The pack leader (you) are in charge of food for your pack. You should be able to say who gets what food and when. There should be no question about this.

If i give you food, (a proper pack leader) will also be able to take it away at any moment without fear of a reaction from the pack dog. After all Im pack leader what i say goes.

there are 2 other really important points that you need to understand to be a great pack leader
1) they are commands not! requests. your body language and tone should indicate this.
2) you will need to be physical with your pack. Watch real pack animals and alpha male doesnt just stand over there and yell at you... he comes up and bites you and says NO.... or rams you or some other physical contact to indicate that he is alpha and what I say goes.

now this isnt saying beat your dog, its saying be physical. Back up a stern command with a touch (Cesar Millan uses a kinda claw like touch to the neck area). if your out in the yard and the pack is playing get in there and wrestle with them, assert your pack leader dominance by physically dominating them.

These 3 simple things (food management, commands not requests and physical touch) is all it takes to be a great pack leader.

 

[Sigarms]

For the record, there are mutliple (successfull) dog bahaviorists who actually disagree with Mr. Millan's meathods. They however don't have a successfull, entertaining TV show (and if you don't think there is some editing on the "Dog Whisperer", I have some bridges for sale).

It's also very interesting how Mr. Millian determines what dogs he's going to "train" for his show. He's got a good gig, can't blame him for that though.

if your out in the yard and the pack is playing get in there and wrestle with them, assert your pack leader dominance by physically dominating them.

Taking a strong powerful dog whose past history is somewhat unknown, taking this course could lead you a trip to the hospital.

I'm not arguing that this type of "training" may not work, but some argue that your masking the issues that causes the unwanted behavior. The next question is if everyone in the family can be physically dominant over the animal (which my wife can't) and what happens with the dogs behavior when the "pack leader" (human) isn't in the presense of the animal? Then you can have claymore just wating to go off.

and it's troubling that the one attacks right away.

Agreed. At first, one may think it is without provocation, but the issue is what may cause this behavior, and do you have the time and means to try and correct it. Some behaviors are easier to correct than others. The problem is that when you have an animal who shows a "killer instinct" frequently (without being given a command to do so), you're going to have your hands full.

For myself, my family (which includes the animals in my care) and my neighbors, very aggressive dogs are kept on a short leash (manner of speaking, not litterally).

The problem/issue is trying to find those dogs (unprovoked agression) a good home which is a good fit.

 

[VABlue]

"The problem/issue is trying to find those dogs (unprovoked agression) a good home which is a good fit."

Precisely why I still have my GSP - I can manage the situation and prefer not to put the dog through the **** of moving him around (and thus subjecting others to unwanted aggression).

Cesar does have a good gig, but someday it'll catch up to him (if it hasn't already) in the form of a lawsuit because a dog he 'fixed' attacked and injured (or worse). Some of the cases I've seen him take have no business being in the home they're in. Inexperienced dog owners/handlers are a liability when paired with an aggressive (attacking) dog. Most times the behavior cannot be 'fixed', but can be managed. Millan's preferred method is plenty of exercise and basic obedience - and it works well, it's something EVERY SINGLE DOG REQUIRES. But it just won't matter with some cases... Some are not manageable, let alone worth the risk.

There are a boat load of methods to train dogs and deal with unwanted behavior. All of them have merit - some more than others. I don't believe in rolling around with a pack to assert dominance, but I can make two young, energetic, field trial bred (ie: high energy) retrievers and my troublesome GSP behave with simply a look. And I don't have to beat them down to do it. Its called respect - something they learn at a very young age. Millan gets that respect by wearing out the dog (exercise) and then making it behave (obedience) when it doesn't have the energy to resist. That method works. As do others...

 

[czechsonofagun]

Well, we rearranged our dogs. Venus is an indoor dog now and Clementine is outdoor. They seldom meet and when they meet it is under supervision.

So far it works well, Clementine stopped barking at night, she is not that afraid of the darkness anymore and Venus is better off with her arthritis in the house.

It seems to me, that Clementine takes it as her duty now to be the watch dog and since she has a task on her hands (paws) she puts her mind to it and behaves better.

 

[jimmyj]

Glad it seems to be working out.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

We currently have five "house" dogs, a 13 year old Picardy Spaniel, an 8 year old Blue Picardy Spaniel, and a small mongrel puppy, all females. The boys are a 7 year old Large Munsterlander and a 6 year old Lab, both rescues. We live on 93 acres of forest and meadow, so all the dogs get all the exercise they want and have no sense of confinement. We have large kennels for each dog, so they are separated when we are gone, but when we are home they just live as part of the family. Other than a little food aggression from the Lab, we have never had a fight. Bird dogs are pretty mellow.

 

[czechsonofagun]

I think you are right, I don't ever remember meeting a hunting dog that would cause trouble and/or be mean. They are typically laid back fellas.

 

[Cliff_Johns]

I think you are right, I don't ever remember meeting a hunting dog that would cause trouble and/or be mean. They are typically laid back fellas.

Quite true. Hunting dogs are bread to work as a team (backing etc.) and are oriented
toward other dogs as helpers rather than competitors.

We've fostered close to 250 dogs in our time, usually two at a time along with two or three dogs of our own. We mostly avoided fostering terriers (other than a couple pit bulls and a pedlington and maybe one or two others), but other than that we fostered all kinds of dogs and didn't have any serious injuries from fights. Part of this was luck and a preference for fostering English Setters, but part of it was also how we did introductions of new dogs.

The introduction is the most important moment and it tends to set the attitudes of the dogs toward each other for a long time to come.

If at all possible, introduce a new dog in a fenced area (not on lead!) that is neutral ground. That is, if you can introduce them where none of the dogs thinks it's home, then they are likely to get along just fine. If you introduce them at home, then your current dog will be less likely to make easy friends since they are on guard. If you have to introduce them at home, then don't pay much attention to the new dog. Your dog needs to feel like the new one isn't getting all the attention (or even most of it). Make sure your current dog(s) think introductions are fun, not stressful. If you're worried, then the dog will be too, and that's bad.

If you're really worried there will be a real fight, then bring two things: A bag of empty soda cans or something that will make a loud clattery noise that you can throw it or shake it near a fight. This usually distracts them and they have a moment to calm down, and second, a trash can lid which when worn like a shield on the back of the hand can be used to break up a real fight. People get bit by their own dogs when breaking up fights, so this is a defensive thing for you and the dogs. It's a wall between them and can also be a wall between you and the dogs. We had these on hand a few times, but never actually had to use the lid.

Remember, if there's no blood, the dogs weren't really fighting so much has having a loud disagreement (or perhaps even playing). They can draw a lot of blood quite easily when they actually want to.

Cliff

 

[czechsonofagun]

Amen to that. I got bit once by our dog when I was a kid - my fault totally of course - and it was very fast and suddenly I was bleeding. They know how to moderate their jaws.

Great trick I learned from a guy who did train German Shepherds as service dogs. If you are braking up a fight, and you are not alone, pull the dog out of the scrummage by the end opposite to the business one - i.e. drag him out by rear legs. Of course it has to be done to both dogs in the same time, but it really disorients them and your hands are safe.