In-Home Multiple Dog Management

[VABlue]

I've trained retrievers for hunt tests for ~15 years, or so, and currently have 6 - 2 ret, 1 GSP, 1 beagle, and 2 yorkies. That list was one of the best I've ever seen for general advice! The GSP is aggressive around food/treats, so he lives in our gated bedroom. The FCR and beagle are crated for a good part of the day as they are young and still learning. The yorkies and 10yo lab (the best trained) have free run within the gated off kitchen/living room area. The yorkies have a couple of 'protected' areas where they go when anyone starts getting excited - noisy, playful, running, etc. They are the cause for every gate and separation - too small to keep safe otherwise.

As for #'s 1 & 2, I agree with them with an aggressive dog. Although my GSP, lab, and FCR (all ~equal size) eat together, they are not left alone.

Basic obedience training, exercise, and interaction will keep most issues at bay. It's too bad that most people won't spend any time with their dogs, let alone actually train them to behave properly.

 

[czechsonofagun]

Thank you all for pitching in. I would be the first one to let them figure out the pecking order, but Clementine is - hmmm, what word would describe her the best?, hysterical maybe. When she is fighting she goes nuts and will not step down, back off even when the other dog is already submissive. From my experience, when I pull her of off another dog I have to hold her for a while, otherwise she will go and attack again.

Very typical situation, that finally made me put her on the line was getting home. We would get home and Venus (older dog, great pyr) would be laying by the gate and when Clementine saw us coming home she would immediately attacked Venus. Or Venus escapes - very typical for pyrs - and comes back and Clementine attacks her.

Anyway, this is our pack: 2 ADTs - Montmorency is 8 and Clementine is 6; Great Pyrenese Venus (the name came from the rescue, not from us) is 9 and Rupert is a mostly lab and one year old.

Monty is 95 pounds or so and very laid back smart dog, my best buddy and the onlty reason he does not answer phones is because of missing opposing thumb Monty loves to roam the night and guard our place and typically sleeps all day long. He is a very nice dog, never growls at people or shows temper with people - but he kills anything that shows up on our land. I lost count of foxes, coons, rabbits, cats, mice and rats I had to dispose.


Clementine(80#) is a fighting dog, her games are rough and fast and she plays well with Rupert the puppy. She is always ready for action, but we believe she is afraid of darknes and at night typically barks a lot, unlike Monty who is a silent killer. It is useful to send them out together at night to help critters escape the jaws of death.

Venus is a pyr. She is skiny, lot of her but around 60 pounds. She looks like stuffed fluffy toy and all she wants is to be left alone, lay on the pond pier in the morning and hide under a bush the rest of the day. We got her in bad shape - she was pretty jumpy, but over the years she really calmed down and the only issue is escaping and marking bigger territory through neighbors back yards.

Rupert is a lab mix, you can see shade of brown on his ribcage, he was a dog for our youngest and he is just the most loveable puppy you could imagine - if you know labs, you know what I mean. He is also spoiled rotten and he is basically tolerated to sleep in chairs and climb beds and such. He is now the fastest and tallest dog, he weights only 74 pounds, but he can really put that mass in motion.

They would all get along easily except for Clementine, she attacks Venus and during the fight she snaps and she has to be pulled out of the fight or she would hurt the other dog, since she goes berserk on a fight.

There you have it, crazy place, lots of dogs, lots of fun - but we like the way we live.

 

[gauthier]

I've enough trouble doing out of home dog management for many years,couldn't never want no in home management.

 

[Sigarms]

Clementine is - hmmm, what word would describe her the best?, hysterical maybe. When she is fighting she goes nuts and will not step down, back off even when the other dog is already submissive. From my experience, when I pull her of off another dog I have to hold her for a while, otherwise she will go and attack again.

You have three options as I see it from what you've described

1. Get professional help
2. Find the dog another home with no other animals
3. Put the dog down

There you have it, crazy place, lots of dogs, lots of fun - but we like the way we live.

Having a dog that attacks other dogs in your care on a regular basis would not be lots of fun for at least myself. If anything, you're opening yourself up for a major lawsuit down the road.

Very typical situation, that finally made me put her on the line was getting home. We would get home and Venus (older dog, great pyr) would be laying by the gate and when Clementine saw us coming home she would immediately attacked Venus. Or Venus escapes - very typical for pyrs - and comes back and Clementine attacks her.

Option 3.

 

[czechsonofagun]

Having a dog that attacks other dogs in your care on a regular basis would not be lots of fun for at least myself. If anything, you're opening yourself up for a major lawsuit down the road.

Yup, the land of free and the home of the brave.... where people are afraid to use common sense because they would get sued.

I was wondering when somebody will bring up the legal aspect.

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

Clementine(80#) is a fighting dog, her games are rough and fast and she plays well with Rupert the puppy.

They would all get along easily except for Clementine, she attacks Venus and during the fight she snaps and she has to be pulled out of the fight or she would hurt the other dog, since she goes berserk on a fight.

There you have it, crazy place, lots of dogs, lots of fun - but we like the way we live.

There is fighting that involves lots of noise and action but usually not serious consequences. Then there's FIGHTING that can produce severe injury and expensive Vet bills in just a few seconds. I'm not sure which version you have from your description.

Sounds like you have a problem that could escalate, but is probably fixable, given time / effort and professional help, however, I'm not sure you could ever be highly confident there would be no regression.

If you are not prepared to take the steps necessary to keep Clem and Venus separate or to fix the problem, I suggest one of them should find a new home.

 

[dave1949]

There is fighting that involves lots of noise and action but usually not serious consequences. Then there's FIGHTING that can produce severe injury and expensive Vet bills in just a few seconds. I'm not sure which version you have from your description.

Sounds like you have a problem that could escalate, but is probably fixable, given time / effort and professional help, however, I'm not sure you could ever be highly confident there would be no regression.

If you are not prepared to take the steps necessary to keep Clem and Venus separate or to fix the problem, I suggest one of them should find a new home.

I was wondering the same thing. Often there is a lot of sound and fury along with snapping of teeth, but no blood. I am not sure every dog can be helped by a professional trainer either. Improved maybe, but to the point where you 100% trust them?

You have given a difficult dog a home and a chance at living. The price you pay may be putting up with and guarding against unwanted behaviors.

What do you do when Clem gets after Venus? As I understand it, you need to let Clem know nothing happens that you don't allow. That's the theory I know from our own dog that can be repeated and reinforced, but it may not take. Venus, as a 9 yr. old Pyr, if she is a purebred Great Pyr, is an old dog.

Dave.

 

[Sigarms]

Yup, the land of free and the home of the brave.... where people are afraid to use common sense because they would get sued.

I would think common sense HELPS prevent you getting sued, and I have no issues with people getting sued who don't practice common sense, and who through their own inactions, cause physical harm to others or others property (pets included).

Personally, I've never been involved in a lawsuit. I have been on jobsites where I've tried to help in a situation when a person brings up the possibility of a lawsuit, and at that time, I walk off the job immediately and thank them for bringing this to my attention. At that point, they (people who mention a lawsuit) usually apologize.

HOWEVER, you have a dog that has shown agression numerous times. Your dog gets off your property and causes a problem (God forbid with a child let alone someone elses dog), you can (and should IMO) be held responsible for the actions of your animal, particularly if the animal has known agression traits.

There is fighting that involves lots of noise and action but usually not serious consequences. Then there's FIGHTING that can produce severe injury and expensive Vet bills in just a few seconds. I'm not sure which version you have from your description.

I was wondering the same thing. Often there is a lot of sound and fury along with snapping of teeth, but no blood.

Here are the hints that are mentioned by the OP that give me the impression that the dog in question is "out for blood"

When she is fighting she goes nuts and will not step down, back off even when the other dog is already submissive. From my experience, when I pull her of off another dog I have to hold her for a while, otherwise she will go and attack again.

Clementine saw us coming home she would immediately attacked Venus.

she attacks Venus and during the fight she snaps and she has to be pulled out of the fight or she would hurt the other dog, since she goes berserk on a fight.

I could be wrong (as usual) but sounds like the animals "prey mode" is in high drive when these incidents occur and the animal isn't trying to figure out it's place in the home.

As many "in depth" discussions I have defending the Pit Bull breed on this forum, I have no qualms needing to destroy an animal if it has shown high agression numerous times and can't be socialized. One sad fact I have learned with working with dogs is that they all can't be saved (perhaps they can, but it's a question of time, money and enviroment that is hard to obtain).

I sincerely don't envy your position, but some hard choices will have to be made, or sooner or later chances are something bad will happen.

If you do find the animal another home, you need to ensure that the people taking the animal knows about ALL of it's traits and tendacies.

Per Miss Johnson, who the OP mentioned made a "good read"

Each dog is different. Each situation has to be independently evaluated. If dog fighting in your home is just an inoccasional nuisance, do what you need to do to live with it and prevent fights. However, if the situation'smaking your life or your dog's life miserable, be willing to carefullyplace a dog with another loving family and get back to having a harmonious home. Life's too short to be miserable, and your dog's life is even shorter. Make sure it's a good one. If you place one dog, be alert tochanges in pack dynamics. Another dog might try to take the first dog's place as antagonizer.

Although I don't agree with everything she states, this is good advice IMO.

 

[czechsonofagun]

I was wondering the same thing. Often there is a lot of sound and fury along with snapping of teeth, but no blood. I am not sure every dog can be helped by a professional trainer either. Improved maybe, but to the point where you 100% trust them?

You have given a difficult dog a home and a chance at living. The price you pay may be putting up with and guarding against unwanted behaviors.

What do you do when Clem gets after Venus? As I understand it, you need to let Clem know nothing happens that you don't allow. That's the theory I know from our own dog that can be repeated and reinforced, but it may not take. Venus, as a 9 yr. old Pyr, if she is a purebred Great Pyr, is an old dog.

Dave.

Venus is rescue too, vet estimated her age, that's all we know. The fights are pretty intense, and I am around dogs whole my life - on the other hand I never watched illegal/commercial dog fight to death (and never would) - but we got blood previously. Luckily pyr has a lot of fur to get hurt easily.

 

[Northland]

Do not agree with #1 and #2.
But they did not fight over the food. It was not allowed. :thumbsup: They each had a bowl.
The Two Legs is the boss. The Two Legs decides who eats what and when. Four legs do not decide the issue.

I like parts of list but agree with Dan. I had three dogs up (sometimes 3 guest dogs) until last year when my two Danes died. These two 150+lb dogs would fight over food with each other and our 45lb husky mix but never when I was standing there. I feed my dogs 100% raw food, outside, and always wait while everyone finishes their food.

This piece excerpted from the article is not always true either-"Two males together in the same house can be a tricky proposition". I was on Dane breeder forums for years and all the breeders (99.9% women) lamented the fact that while "males would sometimes fight for food or *** the female Danes would often fight because "they hated each other." My big black Dane, Molly (RIP), was a testament to that sentiment.

I think Cesar Millan is the master of dog behaviour-Cesar Millan's Official Website | Achieving balance between people and dogs.

Check out this picture in 100% size. It is from the Canadian Retriever championships held two weeks ago on a friend's property. #6-the only woman, won the event.