Impact Wrench Advice

_RaT_ · Jul 28, 2004

I have had several electrics and still have a B&D. As handy as they are for construction for running lags etc. in a deck for example, the power regardless of whats specified is not even remotely close to a air impact. I get the feeling that the foot lbs, air or electric tend to either be exagerated or that the numbers drop significantly over time. I use my air routinely to remove a very stubborn set of 3/4" bolts on my toothbar. The electric won't touch them and the breaker bar is just time consuming.

Bird · Jul 28, 2004

( Bird..... do you still fix impact wrenches??? )

Nope, Junkman, I sold that business about 3 years ago. What model is that IR? I had a neighbor with an old IR231 that he said he'd had about 20 years and he didn't know about the grease fitting in the back end. Just shooting a lot grease in it make it work like he thought it should. Incidentally, I got several IR231s to fix after a mechanic tried to do it himself; one that had been damaged so badly by him trying to get it apart that it wasn't worth fixing. The manual shows an exploded view and how it comes apart, but doesn't tell you that at least three-fourths of the time, you'll have to heat the housing to get the air motor out. A propane torch is a frequently used tool in the air tool repair business.

JimR, is that CP a CP734? Very popular impact and rated at the same power as an IR231. A lot of mechanics prefer it to the IR because it's easier to reverse with the same hand you have on the handle. They are no more trouble to rebuild than the IR231; just have a lot more little pieces, and of course you need to keep the front end half full of motor oil (20W or 30W non-detergent recommended) or it'll break hammer pins and cam release springs.

KiotiJohn, I've no knowledge of the 12 volt models at all. It certainly sounds different and I can envisage a design that might work and would like to see if that's the way it's designed.

jrepp · Jul 28, 2004

Thanks to everyone who replied. Very fast and excellent information. I purchased an IR-2100G from Lowes. 1/2" 550 ft. lbs. torque, $140.00. How often should grease be injected into the wrench? I place two or three drops of oil in the air inlet each time I use the wrench, is this adequate?

Bird · Jul 28, 2004

Hmmm, your knowledge gets obsolete pretty fast when you get out of a business; I never heard of an IR2100G and there's no such model number on the Ingersoll-Rand web site (of course it is shown on Lowe's web site for $139; undoubtedly a good tool, but the picture doesn't show everything). So I'm not sure which style it is. Is the grease fitting (dimple in appearance) in the middle of the back of the housing? Generally speaking, a mechanic using an impact nearly every day should grease it about once a month. They will work without it, but you'd have premature wear internally. Too much grease usually cannot harm or damage the tool, but will reduce power until the surplus works its way out. Two or three drops of oil in the air inlet is OK; I usually say about a teaspoonful. And there's no such thing as too much, because any surplus will blow out the exhaust as soon as you hit the trigger. Give it a shot of oil and one short burst of air after you use it and before you put it away. That will displace any moisture and prevent corrosion if you don't use it again for a long time.

jrepp · Jul 28, 2004

Bird,

The dimple is in the front. No instructions in the manual about it /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif.

Bird · Jul 28, 2004

The IR231 has a little dimple with a little ball bearing in it, right in the middle of the back end of the tool. You need a needle nosed grease gun (or adapter) to push firmly against that little ball bearing and squirt the grease in. That greases the rear air motor bearing, and both the rotor and the anvil are hollow so grease goes through and out two small holes in the side of the anvil to grease the front air motor bearing and the hammers/hammer frame. The IR2131 has sealed bearings for the air motor and the rotor is not hollow, so that little grease fitting is on the side of the front housing and you grease it the same way, but you're just putting the grease into the housing for the hammers/hammer frame to pick up as it turns. Now it sounds as if that IR2100G is similar to the 2131.

RayH · Jul 28, 2004

Dont put the credit card away until you get a set of impact sockets. A good quality impact wrench will bust through a regular set of sockets in no time. For a decent set of metric and standard (yes you will need both at some point) youre going to pay at least $150.
Ive got a Craftsman wrench. I havent been a huge fan of Craftsman for a few years but this has been a good wrench. It is one of their top of the line impacts with 600 ft.lbs though and was priced good.

Junkman · Jul 28, 2004

I just checked and it is a IR 904 model. I noticed a Allan screw at the bottom next to the air line nipple that is marked oil. I removed it and there is a small slotted screw under there inside of the handle cavity. Do you remove this small screw to put the oil in or do you just put it into the handle cavity once the Allan screw is removed? I didn't see any place to put grease. Is there a place to grease this gun? What type of grease do you use? Is Marvel Mystery Oil OK for use in the handle? Thanks for the help. Hopefully some oil and grease will bring new life to this old tool. I was looking at the end where the socket goes on. It is also worn to the point that the part that retains the socket is worn down to nothing and the sides of the 1/2" drive are rounded to some extent. Is it time to retire this to the metal pile??? Are they worth repairing and are parts still available???

Bird · Jul 28, 2004

You've stumped me with that one, Junkman. I worked on a few antiques and usually could find parts, but I did run across a couple for which parts were no longer available. But I've never seen or heard of an IR904. Some of the other IR models have that Allen screw in the handle with about a 1" cylinder of some kind of felt or fiber material that you soak with oil and a sort of siphoning effect makes something of an automatic oiler of it. But the ones of those I've seen didn't have a screw in there. As for Marvel Mystery Oil, I know a lot of people who used it with no ill effects that I know of, but Marvel Air Tool Oil is what I used. Of course I got it by the quart which would probably be a lifetime supply for most folks. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Does that tool have another oil plug on the side? If so, that will be the one that is supposed to have motor oil in it. The ones that have the motor oil in them do not use grease. Or is there one of the little dimple/ball bearing grease fittings anywhere on it? ( the part that retains the socket is worn down to nothing ) Are you talking about a little metal split ring? If so, it's actually called the "socket retainer ring" and under it is a "socket retainer O-ring" (a rubber ring that may be round like most o-rings or may be flat like a tiny rubber band). Those two parts cost $.30 to $1.00 each unless they're on a Snap-On and then about $3. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif And they're easy to change, but I learned that most mechanics don't know how. ( the sides of the 1/2" drive are rounded to some extent ) That's called the "anvil" and I sure replaced lots of them when they either got rounded or chipped. I don't know whether a new one would be available or not. It's my guess that it would not be worth the expense to fix, but you might contact an authorized Ingersoll-Rand service center and they could find out from Ingersoll-Rand whether parts are available and if so, get a copy of the parts list and exploded view. I think Ingersoll has those for everything they make. I sure would like to see some pictures of that tool.

Junkman · Jul 28, 2004

Here is the picture of the end plate. I started to remove the 4 Allan screws to see if the "dot" in the middle was a grease fitting. After I had 3 of them out, and started to remove the 4th, I noticed that there was spring tension trying to push the plate off. Not wanting to deal with something I know nothing about, I put the screws back in. I did try pushing on the "dot" with a pick, but it wouldn't move.

Junkman · Jul 28, 2004

Side view.... possibly this belongs in the Smithsonian, rather than my tool box????? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bird · Jul 28, 2004

Now I'm not going to say anything for sure, just from the pictures, but . . . I have a few opinions. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

1) I'd say that dimple in the back end is the grease fitting and it should be greased.
2) The screw you saw when you removed the oil plug is probably holding the throttle valve spring in place, although most of them have the throttle valve and spring held in by the air inlet fitting.
3) When you loosened the screws on the back of the tool, there's probably a reverse valve spring under there.

Naturally, Ingersoll-Rand says to use their own grease in their tools, and they actually have more than one grease. The original grease in a 2131 is a different color than that in the 231 and many others. I used the Ingersoll grease for the 231s in all the air tools I worked on (regardless of brand or model; came in one pound cans) and never had a complaint. Most of the mechanics used just whatever grease was in the grease gun on their job. And of course any grease is better than no grease.

Too bad we don't live closer together 'cause I'd just have to take that tool apart to see what's in there. It's a little different, but does look very similar to one an uncle of mine has had for about 50 years, and I cleaned it up and made it work a little better, but it was simply worn out and no parts were available.

Junkman · Jul 28, 2004

I would be happy to send it to you and pay the shipping back to me if you want to take a look at it. I think that if it was taken apart and cleaned, it might just work well again. I would even be happy to pay you for your time. As I had said, I thought that I bought it in 1967, but I don't remember if it was used or new. Just know that it was the one that I liked best. I have another, that had a long shaft on it. Gave it to the Snap-On man when it died, and he fixed it to work, but it came back with a small shaft. I had liked that one up till that time because you could just flip the socket and remove two different size wheel nuts. He said that that shaft was the problem. I think that he just wanted the part and swapped it. That one stopped working from lack of use. I hadn't used it in about 15 years when I gave it to him for repair. I asked for the "old" broken part, but he said that he tossed it. I sure wish that he had asked me before making that change to the gun. That particular gun was in like new condition. I only had it for a year or so before I stopped turning wrenches. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

tracdoc · Jul 28, 2004

Hi jrepp,

In reading through this thread, I didn't happen to see any mention of battery powered impact wrenches (my apologies if someone already mentioned them,and I missed it).

We have a Milwaukee 18-volt power plus unit which came with 2 battery packs and a 1-hr recharger. It has a 1/2 inch anvil and puts out 250 ft-lbs torque. This is considerably below the 600 ft-lbs put out by some air tools, but it has been ideal for our automotive and CUT needs. We especially like it for use at the race track. We don't have to haul a compressor, and a generator or find a power hook-up. We go to the track with both batteries fully charged, and they last the full weekend. The recharger can be connected to the truck battery w/ inverter, or you can buy a 12V recharger.
The Milwaukee unit is beefy and well made. We don't abuse it but we use it hard, especially on race weekends. It hasn't failed us yet.
Also, for SAFETY , I would strongly echo the recommendations of RayH to use impact sockets, not regular ones. I have had the opportunity to care for two patients (both casual mechanics) who, in separate accidents, were each hit with the schrapnel of an exploding ordinary socket inappropriately used in high power impact wrenches. It wasn't pretty at all. The regular socket material is not hardened, and it is more likely to fracture under use, as opposed to just wearing out.

Bird · Jul 29, 2004

( I would be happy to send it to you )

Junkman, as much as I'd like to take it apart and see what could be done with it, I'm back in town with no shop to work in, and sold nearly all my tools and equipment. But if you really want to know, contact Air Tech, Inc. in Beckley, WV. They were not only my primary parts supplier, they do the warranty work for Matco, and when I encountered anything I didn't know, I called them on the phone; nice folks who never let me down once. They were always able to tell me how to do anything I didn't know how to do and/or fax me exploded views and parts lists. The only tool I encountered that I couldn't fix myself was one Snap-On air chisel that had a broken part in the cylinder that I simply could not get out with either my 3 ton arbor press or my 6 ton hydraulic press, and when I called to ask them about it, they were quite familiar with it; told me to send it to them and they'd change that part with their 100 ton press. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

( but it came back with a small shaft )

That's surprising, and there's no reason for that. You can buy most models of impact wrenches with either the standard or the extended anvil, and you can easily change them to the one you want. And no matter what model or what the cost of its anvil, I think in every case, the longer ones (2" longer) just cost $10 more than the standard one. Any competent repair service would have replaced a damaged anvil with one the same length unless the customer specified changing to the other one.

gabby · Jul 31, 2004

I don't have much air so I use electric and it's far better than no impact wrench at all. I bought a used Craftsman 1/2" from the Sears site on eBay for about $65 incl shipping. It gets used more than any other power tool we have.

I also bought a good used Dewalt 3/4" from eBay for about $100 incl. shipping as well as 3/4 deep sockets for about $50.

DiskDoctr · Aug 3, 2004

Okay, just found this one. It seems to have just the "right" amount of torque! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Didn't want to take the credit for it, so here is the post with the credit where it belongs.

Too funny not to post

-JC

Phred · Aug 8, 2004

My two cents on this is....

Get an air powered gun and get an IR brand.
I bought a cheapo 1/2" for ~$30 at some wholesale place and broke it with in a few weeks. Also it did not have near enough torque.

Maybe I use mine harder than some do on farm equipment. Some of the bolts are up wards of 400+ Ft lbs to install and after sitting outside for a few years need more than that to pull them off.

After the cheapo died I bought an IR Thunder gun. Just under $200 but oh what a tool!

Just yesterday I pulled the worn out blades of my bush hog 286. They had been on there for years and were in sad shape. Hit the nuts (1 11/16" if memory serves) with some PB blaster, waited a few minutes and hit them with the IR impact.
It was tuff but the came off with a few tries.
The torque spec on these is 450 ft lbs.
To give you an idea of how rusted they were, once I had the nuts off I had to take a harded steel rod and a 2 lb ball pen hammer to get the bolts out. This was by far the hard part, and required lots of persuasion.

The cheapo gun would not have been able to handle this task, and it would have been no fun with a breaker bar.

Two other points:
1) I use a oiless 4 gallon air compressor. Not the right tool but if your paitent it will run the IR impact. I plan to up grade to at least 15 SCFM. You may wish to jump right to a larger compressor if your budget allows. The small oiless was a mistake for me.
2) I have a set of impact sockets that I use for the small stuff less than 1". For the big stuff 1" to 2" I use sears 3/4 " drive sockets. They are pricey but cheaper than a set of good 3/4" drive impact sockets and they stand up well to impact guns since they are very solid.

Hope this helps.

Fred