Idle tractor or turn off?

[Gary Fowler]

I don't worry about battery or starter life or running up hours on my engine. If I know I will be off the tractor for more than a few minutes AND I don't want to have a warm or cool cab when returning, I will shut it down but if it is dead heat of summer, I will leave it running so that I have a cool environment to return too after getting heated up.

In the long run, I don't see any benefit to longevity or cost to run in either scenario. 10-20 minutes of 1200-1500 RPM idle fuel cost is negligible and cost of starter/battery to start up is also negligible. What it boils down to is, do you need the hear the motor running or is quiet better for you and does leaving it running create any danger. If not, then shut it off or leave it running, not a lot of difference either way. I don't worry about running up the hours because any of my tractors are going to outlive me regardless of how much they run at idle or full throttle.

 

[joeu235]

The manual for my tractor and skid steer says to idle down the engine for 10 minutes after working it hard to cool down the turbo.

 

[MHarryE]

Job site with 4 machines that would sit waiting for the next load. One operator shut down, the other 3 let idle. One day I show up and the dealer's truck is at the machine that had always been shut down. I asked one of the crew members - they had told the person she was asking for trouble by always shutting down and sure enough, starter failure. I have found that operators who run the machines for a living rarely idle unless its going to be a half hour or more down time.

 

[RPW]

If I'm off the tractor for more than a couple of minutes but still working on a task I'll set my throttle to about 1000 to 1200rpms. That's enough to keep the engine from cooling down to much and allowing oil contamination from blow by. Then if possible I'll set the FEL and or 3pt down and put the tractor in park.

 

[ericm979]

Starters are cheaper than DPF filters. LOTS cheaper. Even on my old tractor without DPF I would shut it off if was idling for more than a few minutes. I don't like the noise and diesel stink. CUTs aren't long haul trucks or older large machinery that has complex starting procedures such as donkey engines. Those have a reason to be left idling. Small tractors that start instantly don't.

When I got my 3725 the dealer said to not let it idle for long periods as its not good for the DPF. The Kubota dealer said that too.

 

[N80]

I guess the issue is idle speed. My tractor has a way for you to lift the seat so that the PTO stays running. In other words, it overrides the seat cutoff safety switch. This is available for running a pump, etc for long periods via the PTO. Therefore, the engine is specifically made to run for long periods at constant RPM. Now, that RPM might not be idle speed but there is no doubt simple, small NA Kubota diesels were made to handle long periods of constant RPMs. Not sure what the ideal RPM is. Don't recall anything about that in my manual but it has been years since I read it in any detail.

Bottom line, regardless of the tractor, the difference between 5 minutes and and hour of idling is probably insignificant.

 

[Dadnatron]

One question... In General... what information is the first thing given for almost each and every used tractor?

Hint: It isn't 'battery level'.

 

[N80]

One question... In General... what information is the first thing given for almost each and every used tractor?

Hint: It isn't 'battery level'.

Hours. Most tractors, as I understand it, count hours only at or around PTO RPM range (around 2100 RPM on my tractor). So running it at idle or even 1100 RPM is not likely to cost you anything on your hour meter.

Again, I think we're worrying about nothing here.

 

[motownbrowne]

Hours. Most tractors, as I understand it, count hours only at or around PTO RPM range (around 2100 RPM on my tractor). So running it at idle or even 1100 RPM is not likely to cost you anything on your hour meter.

Again, I think we're worrying about nothing here.

That's definitely the way it used to be, but I think most of them are just counting hours with the key on now. So, an hour of run time is an hour on the meter regardless of RPM.

 

[PILOON]

A diesel engine is basically designed to run on and on at constant RPMs vs gazers that are designed for constant variable RPMs ( like a car) honestly do not believe long idles are harmful to a diesel engine, OK for lubrication perhaps a fast idle is better ( your oil pressure gauge will be the guiding light! (enough RPM's to keep pressure in the green zone!)

 

[cford36]

As far as I know the dpf essentially only "works" when there is the soot trying to come out of the exhaust. And usually there is soot upon startup and under load where not all of the fuel gets burned in the combustion chamber.

Personally if I know I'll be off the tractor and not working on it for 20-30mins I turn it off.

If the tractor has a cabin which heats up or cools off, rather quickly. Frequent start ups also put a load on the heater or AC since you turn them up to heat or cool the cabin faster.

Not exactly, the DPF is always "working", it's a filter thats traps the soot particles not a machine that's on or off. Soots always being ceated, it's a diesel.

Some copy and paste info on its operation (references car, but as far as I know the systems are the same.)

"The Diesel Particulate Filter was introduced to help diesel cars pass increasingly tough emissions tests. Its job is to trap soot particles produced through the burning of diesel, and prevent them from entering the atmosphere. Like any filter, DPFs become clogged after so many miles, and then require cleaning."

"Rather than cleaning the DPF, the term used by professionals is DPF regeneration as, technically, the soot particles are burnt off from the filter to regenerate it. This usually happens automatically when the engine reaches a certain temperature normally at motorway speed, or during a long drive if you're driving more slowly. This is referred to as passive DPF regeneration as neither the driver nor the car does anything out of the ordinary it just happens."

If these tractors operate basically the same as vehicle systems, if your operating your tractor and working it hard enough and the exhaust gets up to temp you are burning off soot (passive regeneration). If you idling around and the temps don't get up the DPF will plug faster and you will see more "active" regens, the ones you get notice of.

"If a car spends most of its time being driven around town on short start-stop journeys, the exhaust doesn't get up to temperature so the soot doesnn't get burnt off and the DPF does not regenerate on its own."

"Thankfully, the engine monitors the DPF and when its starts to get blocked, it will alert the driver; this is normally represented as a dashboard warning light. If the DPF warning light comes on itç—´ because the engine management system needs to actively regenerate the DPF. You should take your car on a run to allow the regeneration process to take place. Most engine management systems will actively regenerate the DPF when the car is driven at speeds above 40mph for around 10 to 15 minutes. The soot particles trapped in the filter will soon burn away and the warning light should switch off."

This is the same discussion that took place years ago when I got my pickup with the DPF system and they were new to everyone. The same misinformation and "old" diesel style of thinking and not understanding how the system works. As far as I know these operate the same, possibly a little more simply and not monitoring the percentage of soot and just start regens based on hours. I havent had mine long enough to see what happens.

 

[namesray]

First off thanks everyone for all your replies. Interesting to see what others think and do in simular situations. Lots of differing thoughts. One of my biggest concerns was the long term effects of repeatedly doing either technique (idle or shut off) numerous times. I feel its one thing for a tractor owner to idle an engine for 10 to 15 minutes say for 5 hours total a year. Same thing for turning engine off for those 10 to 15 minutes and restarting a total of say 50 times a year. But in my situation it would be ideling over 70 hours a year or 300 to 400 restarts. I put 250 to 350 hours a year on tractor mostly doing firewood in some way shape or form.

So I was wondering specifically that difference. I would prefer to shut it off. The noise drives me nuts and like someone else mentioned, makes me feel rushed while I would be blocking up tree top with chainsaw. I like the peaceful ness from just hearing the chainsaw and not having the thought of my tractor adding hours when all I "need" running is the chainsaw. So I guess that will be my decision for now, atleast for the larger tree tops.

I am still not completly confident that shutting it off is the best long term decision, but 70 hours a year, over the next 10 years is 700 hours of just holding a log in the air idling. So that is my thoughts for now. Once again thanks again to all.

 

[Texasmark]

My 6530 consumes .047 gallons/hp/hr. The hp in that equation is actual being used at the time hp. The idling thing had other reasons for being popular....like low compression, worn out engines, that are hard to start and if you were lucky enough to get her rolling better not shut her off till finished the job type thing.

So let's say 5 hp will turn the engine and drive line at 600 rpm idle. 128 oz. x .047 x 5 hp = 1 qt. At today's diesel prices here, $2.25 per gallon, 1 qt = 56 cents/hr, not counting wear and tear which is hard to determine.

 

[N80]

That's definitely the way it used to be, but I think most of them are just counting hours with the key on now. So, an hour of run time is an hour on the meter regardless of RPM.

My tractor is 12 years old so I can't speak to anything newer. But the hour meter doesn't budge at low RPMs.

The more I hear about newer tractors the happier I am that I have an old one. It also makes me wonder if I shouldn't be looking for a good condition/low hour tractor without all the polution junk to stow away for future use.

 

[N80]

I am still not completly confident that shutting it off is the best long term decision, but 70 hours a year, over the next 10 years is 700 hours of just holding a log in the air idling. So that is my thoughts for now. Once again thanks again to all.

Again, reading through this thread, the take home message, as I see it, is that it really makes no difference whatsoever and most of the reasons for what people prefer to do are based primarily on preference and not much else. Your diesel and all its components will probably outlast you regardless of your approach to this issue.

 

[Catman8]

I shut it off because like you I don't want to listen to the noise, you can't put a price on your sanity and happiness, the machine I can repair or replace down the road.

 

[dragoneggs]

I think after reading the replies here, I will start shutting mine down more often during my projects. I always do enjoy the peace when I shut it off. I was thinking the repeated starts were hard on the diesel engine. If it is just wear/strain on the battery and starter, I can accept that.

 

[CalG]

From the first response, to these last few, there have been many good comments on the subject. I find it rewarding that "human considerations" seem to carry the sentiment. It's about time that "people are lifted above machines". It's been a long time the other way.
War and commerce will dehumanize nearly everything.

 

[bdog]

The idea that tractors can run all day at idle may be true for older diesels, not tier 4 engines. All your going to do is plug up all the emissions crap. These engines are more efficient meaning more of that energy is used for work that turned into excess heat. You will not maintain a high enough exhaust temp at idle. At minimum high idle, but your probably better off turning it off.

My 2017 F-450 has over 600 idle hours and no issues. My 2016 GMC had about 2000 idle hours when I traded it and no problems. I am sure it is not as good for these emission engines as the previous versions but they are more robust than most people think.

 

[bdog]

I think after reading the replies here, I will start shutting mine down more often during my projects. I always do enjoy the peace when I shut it off. I was thinking the repeated starts were hard on the diesel engine. If it is just wear/strain on the battery and starter, I can accept that.

There is more than just the wear on the starter. The most wear on your engine occurs at start up. Will it kill it? No not any time soon but it still is more wear. What concerns me more is being at operating temp when doing work. We move a lot of dirt and have a dump truck. I often load and drive the dump truck by myself. I leave the skid steer running all day. I don't think it is good to load the truck which is strenuous on the machine then instantly shut it off and drive away and then come back and start it up and go right to heavy work. I let it run and it is always ready and cools down the turbo after work. It is tier 4 too.