Idle tractor or turn off?

[namesray]

I can't make up my mind on this one. I have been using my loader forks to lift tree tops up as a saw buck to block firewood at waist height. I really like doing it this way for many reasons. However, I don't like the tractor running the whole time just to sit there and hold the log up. I would be cutting a lot of firewood this way, so the hours will add up. My average time per top is 10 to 15 minutes off the tractor cutting.

If I shut the tractor off each time, it would be getting a lot of start ups. I would be skidding the tops out, lifting on forks, then turn off.So tractor would be getting run 15 to 45 minutes each time to skid tops out of woods, shut off after lifting top to cut up for 10 to 15 minutes, then restarted to repeat process. Could save 70 plus hours a year if I shut it off each time. Like I say, I would be doing this a lot.

So I am asking, which way would be best for the tractor long term over the years? Does all those restarts do much harm, or would idling or high idle do more harm? Tractor is a kubota mx5200dt and has a tier 4 dpf.

 

[CalG]

I grappled with this same issue for about ,,,ahh.... ten minutes. TURN THE ENGINE OFF!

Modern engines and lubrication assure that you will be long dead before start stop cycles kill the engine.
They are just that good.

With one less "distraction" of the running tractor engine, your saw work will go more quickly and return to you a greater sense of well being.

I can't make up my mind on this one. I have been using my loader forks to lift tree tops up as a saw buck to block firewood at waist height. I really like doing it this way for many reasons. However, I don't like the tractor running the whole time just to sit there and hold the log up. I would be cutting a lot of firewood this way, so the hours will add up. My average time per top is 10 to 15 minutes off the tractor cutting.

If I shut the tractor off each time, it would be getting a lot of start ups. I would be skidding the tops out, lifting on forks, then turn off.So tractor would be getting run 15 to 45 minutes each time to skid tops out of woods, shut off after lifting top to cut up for 10 to 15 minutes, then restarted to repeat process. Could save 70 plus hours a year if I shut it off each time. Like I say, I would be doing this a lot.

So I am asking, which way would be best for the tractor long term over the years? Does all those restarts do much harm, or would idling or high idle do more harm? Tractor is a kubota mx5200dt and has a tier 4 dpf.

 

[shui5612]

The way I see it is that if you turn the tractor on and off it puts more wear on the starter, battery, generator (that needs to recharge battery).

Diesels like being run at idle even if it is for the whole day as it keeps everything lubricated and at operating temperatures.

Not only that, by your description you will be turning it back on and then going straight to work (lifting a log or skidding). This puts some stress on the drivetrain and pump/hydraulics. The way I see it is that leaving it running in between lifting a log and skidding the next one, this 10-15 minute helps the oil and everything cool off slowly and stay lubricated. Therefore I would leave it running personally.

On a side note, 1hour on the tachometer is not actually one hour. Most of them are RPM dependent and when you run at idle, the 1 hour mark takes up more than actual 60minutes. While running at max rpm, the hour is far less than actual 60minutes.

I recall someone timing their tractor and it was something like 1tach hour at idle was something like 1 hour and 20minutes of actual time and 1tach hour at max rpm was something like 35 actual minutes.

I think the point where 1 tag hour equals 1 actual hour is at the speed indicated as being 540rpm for the pto.

Hope this helps.

 

[bdog]

I was doing a lot of work today with my tractor. Using it and my skidsteer we spread out 275 tons of crushed asphalt. The tractor was used probably five hours today but I started it at 8AM and didn't turn it off until 6pm. I hate stopping and starting engines.

 

[David_Kb7uns]

If over 5 minutes I turn off.

Use grapples to hold up one end of Doug Fir trees to limb, walk up one side down the other with saw, if it was short time with saw I would leave going but on the trees with a lot of limbs I just shut down starters are not that hard to work on and the newer Kubota diesels like to be worked and not just idled.

All of my tractors no longer have tractormeters and just record straight time run time and are not RPM dependent so idle time is the same as full throttle time.

David

 

[holeycow]

High idle. Never 0 throttle while sitting. Especially in the cold.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

I'll stick with leaving it run unless down time is lengthy, like going to lunch where one beer may equal 2-3.

Ron

 

[cford36]

The idea that tractors can run all day at idle may be true for older diesels, not tier 4 engines. All your going to do is plug up all the emissions crap. These engines are more efficient meaning more of that energy is used for work that turned into excess heat. You will not maintain a high enough exhaust temp at idle. At minimum high idle, but your probably better off turning it off.

 

[dragoneggs]

I'll stick with leaving it run unless down time is lengthy, like going to lunch where one beer may equal 2-3.

Ron

:thumbsup: :drink: At least it isn't a Martini!

 

[Sysop]

I'll stick with leaving it run unless down time is lengthy, like going to lunch where one beer may equal 2-3.

Ron

Agreed. When I work all day with my tractor, it runs most of the time, especially when it is cooler out and will cool down faster. On hot days when I know it won't cool down much after getting it to operating temps, I'm more likely to shut it off between tasks. If I'm walking away or going to be busy at other tasks for about 20-30 minutes or more, it gets shut down.

That being said; I like silence a lot and consider the quietest of internal combustion engines to be very loud, so I do prefer working it on hot days when I can shut it down more often. I don't have to worry about regens and DPF clogs and other tier4 problems, so idle is a common setting for my throttle, and short runtimes aren't always uncommon...

 

[RoyJackson]

I'll let it idle for maybe 5 minutes or so...if longer then that, I shut it down. Winter...probably longer idling to keep the engine and cab (hot water heater) warm.
BTW, when I write "idle", it's idling at 1500 RPM...I never idle the engine at less then 1500 RPM.

 

[brown40]

Wet stacking and degrading the lubrication and cylinder-piston sealing of an unloaded, cold running engine is the biggest concern I know of. The emissions stuff is newer than my experience. I don't know that 5-10 minutes running cool between harder use be a concern. Until the unit is up to temperature I will run it. I shut off the unit when I have handwork on the forks or in the bucket--My ears and lungs can't take the fumes and banging working around the FEL (exhaust is right there).

 

[Turbys_1700]

I guess that I am in the 5 minute category give or take. I don't know how the different emissions engines will react to prolonged periods of idle. I would hope that 5 minutes here and there would not be a concern but we really don't know what the long term effects may be.

 

[RjCorazza]

Tier4 and old school diesel operation has been a tough learning curve for me... old habits die hard.
I generally shut down the tractor if not being used for 5-10m. For brief idling I keep the engine at 1500rpm or so.
For my particular machine I set the throttle at 1500rpm, and let the auto throttle increase rpm's from there.

 

[PJSprog]

I've been letting mine idle if the out-of-cab work is 5 minutes or less. More than that, and it gets shut off. No point prematurely filling the DPF.

 

[bspeedy]

I'm in the 5 minute club. Longer than that wastes fuel and tractor hours. Starters and batteries are easy and fairly cheap to replace. Also, when I'm doing something like bucking wood, the idling engine would be somehow 'pressuring' me to hurry and get back on the tractor. I don't want to be hurried when cutting.

My dad shuts his tractor off almost any time he dismounts it. He has a 1982 Ford 1900 with around 2000 hours. No starter issues, doesn't eat up batteries any quicker than my tractors. No problems with his methods over the last 35 years. I think he leaves his big tractor running, however. Likes to keep the air con cooling...

 

[RSKY]

Cool or cold weather, let it idle. Warm weather sitting still less than ten/fifteen minutes, let it idle. More than that shut it off.

Just my opinion.

RSKY

 

[Spindifferent]

Interesting question. From my 2005 JD 3520 Operators Manual:

---

Idling the Engine
NOTE: Allowing engine to idle for long periods of time will waste fuel and cause carbon build-up.

1. Adjust hand throttle lever to set engine speed at slow idle speed.

2. Lock the park brake.

---

Not sure what "long periods of time" means, but I'm in the 5-10 minutes club with many others. :turtle:

 

[N80]

My tractor does not have any of that pollution crap on it. I don't worry about letting it idle for long periods at all. Mostly I shut it down if the noise is going to bother me, leave it running if it isn't.

Glad I have a simple NA diesel with out computers or pollution stuff. Glad I have a couple of manual transmission cars too. Hope my tractor lasts a long time because I would not buy a Tier 4 tractor.

 

[shui5612]

As far as I know the dpf essentially only "works" when there is the soot trying to come out of the exhaust. And usually there is soot upon startup and under load where not all of the fuel gets burned in the combustion chamber.

Operating it at idle and at operating temps should result in no soot being created in the first place. Also if the tractor has a Regen cycle then the soot build up shouldn't be a concern as it essentially burns the soot up by injecting diesel into the exhaust and with increased exhaust temperatures created a high enough temp to combust the soot in the dpf.

Personally if I know I'll be off the tractor and not working on it for 20-30mins I turn it off.

If the tractor has a cabin which heats up or cools off, rather quickly. Frequent start ups also put a load on the heater or AC since you turn them up to heat or cool the cabin faster.