Idle or shut down?

/ Idle or shut down? #1  

Camo

Silver Member
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Feb 2, 2008
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168
Location
Southwest Pennsylvania
I got my Kubota B5200 a couple of months ago, and came upon a question. Is it better for the diesel tractors to sit and idle while you work on something, say like cutting firewood, or should I shut it off and restart it when I'm ready to move again. I'm not concerned about burning a little fuel if idling is best, but I want to do what is best for the machine. Thanks!
 
/ Idle or shut down? #2  
You'll get a few different responses, I'm sure, but I find if I'm going to so something for more than a few minutes, I shut the tractor down... Something about "wet stacking" if left idling too long. Plus, if you're going to have it idling for any extended period of time it doesn't hurt to save the diesel at today's prices.
For on and off the tractor quickly, I leave it idling of course.
 
/ Idle or shut down? #3  
My personal "bench mark" when the engine is warmed up; five minuutes or more I shut it down. They burn very little at idling (100 to 1) air/fuel ratio, but there is still a lot of moving parts turning? I have a 30 yr old Kubota L295DT 5000+ hours with absolutely no failures in electrics or mechanical systems, but I don't beat-it either, and change the fluids and do the preventive maintenance also.

I live in a mild climate also (Calif.), but cold weather would be another factor for leaving it run? You should find yours very reliable too.
 
/ Idle or shut down? #4  
About 5 minutes here too...anymore then that, I shut it down. Also, my idle RPM is 1200 RPM or so. I never idle it at less then 1000 RPM.
 
/ Idle or shut down? #5  
Camo said:
I got my Kubota B5200 a couple of months ago, and came upon a question. Is it better for the diesel tractors to sit and idle while you work on something, say like cutting firewood, or should I shut it off and restart it when I'm ready to move again. I'm not concerned about burning a little fuel if idling is best, but I want to do what is best for the machine. Thanks!

About 3 years ago I read an article in Progressive Farmer that had asked the question to Cummins and Cat. Both companies stated that after 5 minutes of idle, shut it down. Main reason being, at idle a diesel burns very little fuel and the engine temps drop below the optimum point. This causes unburned fuel to puddle in the crankcase and contaminate the oil. THis in turn accelerates wear.
When the major makers speak, we should listen.
GregH
 
/ Idle or shut down? #6  
Same here.. about 5 minutes is the max number.

That lets me hop down, open gates, and pull transport lock pins on my mower.. etc..

soundguy
 
/ Idle or shut down? #7  
GregH said:
Main reason being, at idle a diesel burns very little fuel and the engine temps drop below the optimum point. This causes unburned fuel to puddle in the crankcase and contaminate the oil. THis in turn accelerates wear.
When the major makers speak, we should listen.
GregH

Someone should tell this to the applejacks that sit with their diesel idling in front of the doors to the store, while their family shops for 30 mnutes.

I have to wonder about this, Trucks are often left idle overnight, construction equipment often is idle for hours. I worked at the airport when I was young, the diesel equipment was never turned off in the winter, (left idle all night, every night).

Clearly a running engine will wear faster than one that is not running. I'm just wondering about how big a deal is the accelerated wear aspect. Does that mean the engine will only last 300k miles instead of 350k?

There is also a certain amount of wear from a cold start to factor in.

I have an engineer friend, (which is odd because I dislike engineers :D ), who worked at TRW, on failure analysis of engines. His wife is also a retired petroleum chemist. I am going to see them today, so I will get their opinion on this.

I let my tractor run at idle for 5 minutes to cool down after working it, then I shut it off.
 
/ Idle or shut down? #8  
I usually will let it run for 5 minutes also,More if its cold,say 20 or less degrees.I also will let it cool down for a bit after its been worked hard,longer if the motor has a turbo.
Brian
 
/ Idle or shut down? #9  
I shut down the key start tractor and idle the push this, pull that, turn switch tractor.

mark
 
/ Idle or shut down? #10  
This may have no bearing on diesels, but letting a gas engine for more than 10 seconds uses more fuel than shutting it down and restarting. This is for modern computer controlled injected engines, not carburetor equipped older ones.

More fuel burned means more pollution in the air, too.

I think the 5 minute rule of thumb for diesels is pretty reasonable. We have some kind of limit on idling school buses and delivery trucks near the school building, but I don't know what it is.
 
/ Idle or shut down? #11  
Yup, 5 mins here too unless i have a lot of stop/starts to do. Not too sure how many stop/starts my battery would cope with in a short period of time. esp with a 15-30sec pre heat before each whirl...
Also, I prefer to shut down the engine and leave the tractor in gear to act as a secondary failsafe just incase the parking brake let go or were pushed by accident...:rolleyes:

Besides.... wouldn't you prefer to smell pine trees instead of diesel exhaust fumes...?
 
/ Idle or shut down? #12  
I think there are two rules, one for those who are paying for the diesel and another for those who are paid to operate them.

jmf
 
/ Idle or shut down? #13  
Once the engine starts and is running and the oil pressure is up to operating range, the journals ride on a nice, thick layer of oil; thicker than any surface asperities. Journal bearings don稚 like starting & stopping and under these conditions are subject to a thinned down lubrication condition where asperities can make contact, weld, oxidize and tear apart. That痴 one of the primary ways they ear. That痴 why people who run diesels 24/7 let them idle for extended periods.
 
/ Idle or shut down? #14  
Please excuse my madd punctuation skilz. What am I doing wrong?
Why does my the text editor do that?
 
/ Idle or shut down? #15  
On my big turbo tractors, I will let idle no longer than fifteen to twenty minutes, my D6 Cat pretty much the same way..Has worked well for me..one of my tractors has 8600 hours and doesnt use a drop of oil..The amount of diesel my equipment burns at idle is insignificant compared to batterys,starters,cold starts ect..
 
/ Idle or shut down? #16  
ray66v said:
I have to wonder about this, Trucks are often left idle overnight, construction equipment often is idle for hours. I worked at the airport when I was young, the diesel equipment was never turned off in the winter, (left idle all night, every night).

Remember.. some trucks have idle up solenoids, as well as idle variance built in. also.. trucks with reefers have a seperate engine in the back for the compressor that kicks on automatically to maintain temp. At a distance.. a reefer running might sound like a truck idleing..

soundguy
 
/ Idle or shut down? #17  
Baby Grand said:
Once the engine starts and is running and the oil pressure is up to operating range, the journals ride on a nice, thick layer of oil; thicker than any surface asperities. Journal bearings don稚 like starting & stopping and under these conditions are subject to a thinned down lubrication condition where asperities can make contact, weld, oxidize and tear apart. That痴 one of the primary ways they ear. That痴 why people who run diesels 24/7 let them idle for extended periods.


You wrote in Word and pasted in format characters that goof up the works.


On idling, if it's so good, why do transport companies monitor idle time and reward the driver with the least amount? 'cuz it ain't so good to let them idle.

I'd bet you dollars to donuts that if you go to a truck stop tonight you won't hear the independents running their engines - they are paying for that burbling sound at $4.25 a gal! It didn't used to matter when fuel was $0.35 a gal, but now....

jb
 
/ Idle or shut down? #18  
Then there are those who say the most engine wear occurs at start up?:confused: :confused: :confused:

Me, In don't know?:( :(

The construction company I used to work for left the equipment running 24/7. The only time it was shut off was for mechanical or specific service work which was scheduled by engine hours. This was on a jobsite that had two ten hour shifts. The company had lots of data and also had good communication with the Caterpillar company!:confused: :confused: :confused:

Me; I don't know. I'm not in access mode to proper data at the moment!:confused: :confused: :confused: :D :D :D

Of course very cold weather operation could be a different animal. Shut the stuff off and it may not start! This is also where Rad shutters and idle speed control come into play.
 
/ Idle or shut down? #19  
I let it go for 10 to 15 minutes. . and don't drop idle below 1100 have not noticed a drop in engine running temp while idleing. On the other end of the county where the commuter train depot is the town/s are always warring with the Metro on the very expensive locomotives idling all nite long Seems the neighbors don't like the noise or smell. -Ed
 
/ Idle or shut down? #20  
As diesels got more efficient, they got worse at idling for prolonged periods. Cummins has a TSB about prolonged idling on their later Direct Injected engines causing stuck valves, increased wear on ringlands and increased fuel contamination of the oil.

Why? because the more efficient the combustion process, the less waste heat is given off. At low RPM and loads, EGTs will get below 300 degrees, this means some fuel goes unburnt, and that works its way around the rings and into the oil. That's Cummins' interpretation anyways.


(I worked a contract developing standalone engine management systems, and got to spend time working with a gov't contractor on a scratch-built Diesel engine management system based on common rail injection - you should see what happens when buggy software sticks open an injector with 26,000psi fuel pressure in the rail! you have to empty out the whole room!)
 
 
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