I need opinions.....

BigBob · Dec 12, 2003

Made a deal the first week in Nov. on a Case DX33. Stopped in a week later, and dealer says the turf tires aren't in for it yet.It has R4 tires now. I didn't order turf tires for it but in earlier discussions we talked about them. He said it was too late to cancel the order, so I said I would take them. I figured it could have been just as much my fault as his. As of three weeks ago the front ones came in but no rears. I stopped by the dealer to find this out. I haven't heard from the dealer since. He brought out a Dx25 in Oct. for me to try and it's still here. I sold my previous tractor, but don't like using the 25 because it's not mine. I'm getting a little aggraveted. Am I being too impatient? My Kubota dealer always had my tractor to me within 2 days of purchasing it. Maybe I'm too spoiled, but I'm wondering if and when I need service it will be this slow. I had a dealer call me today telling me he had a New Holland TC29 just came in with 200 hours on it and a 72" midmount mower for $12,500.oo. The DX will cost me $14,400.oo. I hate to break my word after telling Case I would buy it, but 1 1/2 months seems like a lot to me. What do you think? Should I be patient or be a jerk? I do make a good jerk when needed. Thanks for listening and my blowoff. Your thoughts would be helpful. Thanks.
Bob

jinman · Dec 12, 2003

Bob, it sounds to me like you have a dealer who wants you to have the tractor he wants you to have when he wants you to have it. I believe I'd tell him you feel like making your own decisions and the first decision is to buy a tractor from somebody else. After all, you can get that same tractor in a nice blue color. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

BigBob · Dec 12, 2003

Since you seem to like the blue ones, I've got a question. Do you know if a FEL will fit on the TC29 with the mid mount mower attached? The price on the used one I got today seems pretty good to me, and I'm thinking pretty hard on it.

jimg · Dec 12, 2003

So, was there a written sales agreement? I always insist on one so everybody's on the same page. It makes a good reference document if questions come up later.

BigBob · Dec 12, 2003

No, just told him I would take it. He said he would pick up the check when delivered. Still, I feel like an [censored] if I don't take it after I told him I would.

jdcook00 · Dec 13, 2003

I'd call the dealer and ask him what the deal is ? Does he want to sell you a tractor or not. If not, go get the Blue one if its equiped like you want. If he does want to sell you one I'd use the tractor he loaned you until yours arrives. After all, why should you suffer for their delay. Good luck.

PineRidge · Dec 13, 2003

Made a deal the first week in Nov. on a Case DX33. Stopped in a week later, and dealer says the turf tires aren't in for it yet.It has R4 tires now. I didn't order turf tires for it but in earlier discussions we talked about them. He said it was too late to cancel the order, so I said I would take them. I figured it could have been just as much my fault as his. As of three weeks ago the front ones came in but no rears. I stopped by the dealer to find this out. I haven't heard from the dealer since. He brought out a Dx25 in Oct. for me to try and it's still here. 

It sounds like a bit of miscommunication, nothing more. If the dealer has a loaner at your place, use it. Your tractor I am sure is important to him or he would not have left the loaner. My tractor wasn't purchsed over the Holiday season and it still took better than 3 weeks to arrive, but then it's BLUE so it was worth the wait.

Merry Christmas!

JDgreen227 · Dec 13, 2003

Bob.

From what I interpret there is no written sales agreement or purchase order and you do not mention a down payment. You can tell me it's none of my darn business but I would never offer to buy anything over $1000 without some type of paperwork showing the terms of the purchase.

Still, I get the indication your dealer isn't too cooperative in this matter and he should be more willing to get the tractor you desire. It's not like you are buying something difficult to obtain or a one of a kind item. Since there is no written agreement or down payment I think you should feel free to tell your dealer that you are tired of waiting and want to buy something else. Not knowing what kind of demand there is for the tractor you "ordered" I can't say if 1 1/2 months is too long to wait.

But if it were me, and the dealer wasn't someone I knew well, I would seriously consider backing out of the purchase. It does not reflect well on service in the future if that's the attitude your dealer has. Just my two cents worth.

Henro · Dec 13, 2003

I think I would talk to the dealer and ask him for a firm delivery date.

If he said "I can't guarantee delivery before July..." I would say that is not good enough and the deal is off.

Or I might say, if exactly what I want is not here by [whatever date works for me] then the deal is off.

Seems like you are being very reasonable in this matter. If the dealer cannot deliver...well, it is a two-way street, isn't it?

Now the dealer has loaned you a tractor for use until yours comes in. That is a plus on his side.Will that tractor do what you need it to do until the one you ordered comes in?

If I were in your shoes I probably would not be happy. My guess is that I would tell the dealer that I appreciate his efforts, but that I can't wait past a certain future date, and if my new tractor is not delivered by that date, then please come and pick up the loaner. I would also tell him to call me when he does get it, and that I would consider buying it at that time if I have not found something else in the meantime.

Remember, being reasonable is not being a jerk, although a jerk may perceive a reasonable guy as being one... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I would not worry about that.

CTKOB · Dec 13, 2003

With all the shipping company's and tire company's I can't believe it takes 6 weeks to get a set of tires .I do understand how you feel, my Kubota took 2 weeks to get and it was on the lot .

jinman · Dec 13, 2003

Bob, the only difference between the red DXs and the blue TCs is that the TCs can have Supersteer and the red DXs don't have that option. If you can do it (put on a mid-mount and FEL simultaneously) on the DX, you can do it on the TC. I'm sure I've seen lots of New Holland photos with both the FEL and mid-mount mower at the same time. If you ask that question in the NH forum, I'll bet you get lots of responses and maybe even some pictures.

( Since you seem to like the blue ones )

Bob, I don't have any preference of New Holland over Case for the compacts. My intention was to suggest that your Case dealer might be a little more cooperative if he thought you might buy a different tractor. I'm guessing there is not a NH dealer close by because Case-New Holland (CNH) won't let dealers in the same town compete. The local Case dealer in my town can't carry the DXs because the NH dealer is only about 3 miles down the same highway.

Based on your previous comments about your tractor having R4s and your dealer waiting on turfs, it sounded to me like he had your tractor at the dealership, but would not complete a contract with you. If he has your tractor and will only loan you a different tractor, that would get me pretty "hot." Why wouldn't he let you have your own tractor and then pick it up and install the options when they arrive? If your tractor has not arrived, I understand the situation and it would seem your dealer is trying to help you. In that situation, I'd say it's a good thing and reflects postively on the dealership.

As to getting the options you want, there is only one person who needs to make that final decision and that is you. We all "work through" options in our mind and if your dealer misunderstood your intentions, you should be allowed to configure your tractor as you want it. Your dealer is the "professional" when it comes to tractors and their options. It only makes sense that you would discuss all options with him. He should make a list or a sales contract with the tractor and all options as they will be installed on your tractor and ask for your to sign or initial that document. If he didn't do that, it is his oversight, and you should be firm in getting what you want. Verbal contracts are notorious for being inaccurate and problematic. I might even suggest that you sit down and make a list which includes your tractor and every option you want. Present that list to him and tell him you won't buy anything else, but be ready to stand by your decision.

Bob, all this is just my impression from your original post. Gosh knows I have been wrong in the past and could be wrong now, but I just want you to get the tractor you want and I think there has been too many non-specifics in your negotiation and those have led to confusion. At some point I think you have to take control or else you may end up with something you really did not want. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Good luck. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Old_Hickory · Dec 13, 2003

Could you buy the tires yourself and have the dealer reimburse you ?There are lots of other places that sell tractor tires besides your dealer. At least there is in my neck of the woods.

Henro · Dec 13, 2003

Wow...did I miss the point that the tractor was sitting on the dealer's lot all along...and that it is simply a tire issue!!?? /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

PineRidge · Dec 13, 2003

I hope that my last post was not misunderstood. If you are not pressed for a tractor since you do have a furnished loaner. And if you did not sign a sales agreement with a specified delivery date then you are still in control.

I merely suggested a better line of communication between you and your dealer. Ultimately you are the one that will need to be happy with this tractor and deal for a long time to come.

If he can't make you happy, then by all means give him an ultimatum, if he can’t or won't abide by it then find another dealer and another tractor. There are lots of dealers out there that really do want your business.

aloha · Dec 13, 2003

It sounds like you formed an oral contract, but the seller may be in breach, and the contract may be unenforceable if not in writing. Or maybe the opposite on all points.

When no time of delivery was specified originally, the dealer would have a reasonable time in which to deliver. It sounds like the time that has passed would be beyond reasonable. However, the loaner complicates it. At a minimum, it would give the dealer more time to deliver. It probably was left with you these many weeks with the expectation that you would buy the DX33 and as an accomodation until they deliver. If you now cancel the deal on the DX33, you might owe the dealer rental value of the DX25 for the time you had it. You, of course, consider it only to be an extended test drive which has created no obligation.

You probably should clarify with the dealer what is happening with the DX33. Let them know you have completed your test drive and are prepared to sign a contract to buy, which must specify a reasonable time for the dealer to deliver. Tell them to take back the DX25. (If you are not comfortable using their machine, you are not getting the benefit, but they have an excuse to delay.)

Keep in mind that you may think you have an agreement at $14,400, but until it is reduced to writing, there is a possibilty they may recall the agreement differently.

If you are considering walking away from the DX33 you should talk with an attorney who does consumer law. You need to be careful that you do nothing that might create a contract binding on you where a contract does not now exist.

jinman · Dec 13, 2003

I'm not sure, Bill. I got the opinion that the dealer had the tractor by Bob's comment as follows:

( Stopped in a week later, and dealer says the turf tires aren't in for it yet.It has R4 tires now. )

That gave me the impression that the dealer had the tractor with R4s and was only waiting for the turfs. Do you think I read too much into this statement? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

BigBob · Dec 13, 2003

Everyone, thank you very much for your posts. I got a lot of good information there. Here is an update. I talked with some farmers who have dealt with both dealers. They all agreed on two things.
#1. The dealer with the TC29 cannot be trusted.
#2. The Case dealer is known to be slow on selling, but service dept. is excellent.
I then went to the Case dealer and had a long talk with him.(about 2 hours) He apologized for not getting with me,I am to use the loaner any way I want to, and he cannot honestly tell me when the rear tires and rims will be in. The tractor is in the shop,jacked up, and rear wheels are off. When the new wheels arrive, they will be installed and delivery will be the same day. I think we got things worked out well enough between us. Even though I was aggravated, I still can't help but like the guy. Either he is a good man, or I am extremely gullible. Please don't answer to the last statement. I feel better about using the one here now. The thing that persuaded me was all the farmers and what they said about the service. I do want to thank all of you again and I'll quit my complaining. Thanks,
Bob

BigBob · Dec 13, 2003

When I posted the liking of blue ones, I meant that you probably had a lot of experience with them. I have no color preference(other than green) and didn't mean anything wrong with my statement. Sorry,
Bob

jwcinpk · Dec 13, 2003

You are buying the thing. I would get what I wanted on it. If I didn't particularly want the R4s I'd tell the dealer hey you get me the tractor for the price we negotiated with ag tires or no deal. If you want R4s later you can get them later. You are not costing him anything to get you the tractor with ags. You are actually saving him money as R4s are more expensive. Bottom line get your tractor like you want it or you are gonna spend more money to get it that way in the future. If a set of tires keeps your dealer from making a deal you don't have much of a dealer. Heck I almost cancelled a $38000 order I had with my dealer over $350. If you have a loaner, run it like you stole it!

rbarker · Dec 16, 2003

( Everyone, thank you very much for your posts. I got a lot of good information there. Here is an update. )

Good for you for handling it this way! Communication is the key here. To many people today try to hold someone responsible for a problem without telling them that one exists.

And for what it's worth, this guy sounds legit and I would trust him too. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif