Hydraulics Requirement for Grader/Box Scraper

[threepiece]

Fellows, I plan to add three rear remotes to my tractor specifically for a box scraper. Two remotes will control the top and tilt on the tractor, one remote for the cylinder on the scraper that controls the scarifier depth.

 

[threepiece]

I am interested in opinions on the configurations of the valves. I have the option of float. Do you think it is needed for any of the remotes? Is there any other considerations to adding remotes specifically for the grader box.

Thanks for any help.

 

[CH4Ohio]

Rear remotes are essential. I've never really needed more than two on a small tractor, unless I was trying to divert one up front to replace a 3rd function on a FEL.

Using 3 remotes to control a box scraper, including one to run the scarifiers up and down, seems crazy to me.

Edit -- I should add -- I usually just adjust the angle of attack and tilt using the hitch and then tweak the depth of cut using the lift lever as I go. I've almost never use the scarifiers and have only adjusted / changed the settings on mine a couple times in 20+ years. It just seems overkill to have the scarifiers on a remote. (How would that even work?)

Obviously, your setup is much more sophisticated and precise than anything I've ever used on my box blades or land planes.

 

[oldnslo]

Float is nice for tilt feature if you are wanting the attachment to follow the contour of the ground.

 

[old and tired]

When I added remotes for Top and tilt hydraulics, I mounted 3 spools (thought long and hard for 4 but $$$ you got to stop somewhere). So, 2 for top-N-tilt and the third I used for a grapple. IF I needed another one, I could unhook the grapple and route it to the rear if needed... which has never been needed.

So, Float... I don't think it's needed, in fact, My top link and side link both have a double action whateveryou call it valve... so float will not work in my case (personally, I like to set it and forget it).

Most valves will leak down over time, I like double acting pilot valve (looked it up) to keep things in place until I need to move them.

I don't have a problem setting the scarifiers at depth, when I need them. I don't need to fine tune them. Up out of the way or fully down and locked. Depends on if this is a job you want to do a lot of or one time use to build a road to the creek.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I am interested in opinions on the configurations of the valves. I have the option of float. Do you think it is needed for any of the remotes? Is there any other considerations to adding remotes specifically for the grader box.

Thanks for any help.

I always provide the float feature with 2 of the valves when I sell valve sets. There are certain tasks that simply benefit from using the float feature for both the top link and side link.
If for any reason you might end up with an implement that has a hydraulic function, then you should get the 3rd rear remote valve as a just in case feature.

It is not a big expense and it is always better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Now with your 110, it has the slot & guide float feature with the lower clevis, so this pretty much removes the need for the float feature for the side link as long as your top & tilt set still has this feature.

Good luck with your research.

 

[threepiece]

To add, I already have a top and tilt kit and a Frontier box grader. Both were original equipment sold by John Deere for the 110 TLB. The box grader has a cylinder that controls the scarifier depth. So, I will need three remotes. I was just wondering how helpful the float feature would be for any of the three as I have never used such a set-up. I have some experience with a plain box scraper on my smaller Kubota, no rear hydraulics on that one.

 

[threepiece]

Now with your 110, it has the slot & guide float feature with the lower clevis, so this pretty much removes the need for the float feature for the side link as long as your top & tilt set still has this feature.

Good luck with your research.

I have not seen this feature before and I don’t know if mine does have it. It is JD original equipment. I will have a look when I get back to the shop.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

To add, I already have a top and tilt kit and a Frontier box grader. Both were original equipment sold by John Deere for the 110 TLB. The box grader has a cylinder that controls the scarifier depth. So, I will need three remotes. I was just wondering how helpful the float feature would be for any of the three as I have never used such a set-up. I have some experience with a plain box scraper on my smaller Kubota, no rear hydraulics on that one.

Every rotating hydraulic actuated ripper set that I have ever seen is intended to be either raised up or locked down in the lower position. The scarifiers were never intended to be used in any in-between position. If you need a different depth, then hand adjust the scarifiers in their mount.

Regarding the side link, I have only seen 2 of the OEM T&T sets for a 110 and neither of them had the slot & guide setup to match the left side link.
Last thing, the top link is not built to provide the optimal working range. The ones that I have seen provided about 2" of retraction and 6" of extension from the implement level point front-back. The side link is designed to be fully retracted when level, so all you get is tilt down on the right side.

 

[old and tired]

...I was just wondering how helpful the float feature would be...

If your cylinders have double pilot operated check valve like below; then float would not work until you remove it.

Me personally, I don't see a need for float. If I did, I would just use my front end loader, in float, dragging it backwards. Some people use float on their toplink on mowers. I just don't connect the top links to my mowers...

 

[MtnViewRanch]

If your cylinders have double pilot operated check valve like below; then float would not work until you remove it.

Me personally, I don't see a need for float. If I did, I would just use my front end loader, in float, dragging it backwards. Some people use float on their toplink on mowers. I just don't connect the top links to my mowers...

Without writing a book on the subject, everyone's surface that they work with is not flat.

If you are looking for a smooth surface and the grade transitions as you go around a corner or in a Y in a drive surface or S curves, depending on how drastic the grade differences might be, having the implement follow the ground vs following the tractor can make for a far superior finish with the side link in float. You are looking for independent motion from the left and right sides through the transition areas of the grade.

Without using the float feature, you often end up either digging in or dropping material where you do not want that to happen.
If all a person works with is flat or very gentle transitions, then no big deal. But if you have more drastic changes, then making use of the float feature can make for a very nice finished grade.

 

[threepiece]

Well to be sure I don’t know if my T&T is JD OEM. I bought it and the Frontier box grader at auction about four years ago. The owner had a 110 and an array of JD attachments for it that appeared to be unused. The story was that he was starting a business years ago but got sick and later died.

My assumption is the T&T is original JD. It does have a slot on the side link. I have only the cylinders, hoses and lower lift arms, no attaching hardware.

 

[old and tired]

So this getting mounted to your John Deere 110 TLB? ...or the Kubota 3400?

 

[paulsharvey]

Every rotating hydraulic actuated ripper set that I have ever seen is intended to be either raised up or locked down in the lower position. The scarifiers were never intended to be used in any in-between position. If you need a different depth, then hand adjust the scarifiers in their mount.

Regarding the side link, I have only seen 2 of the OEM T&T sets for a 110 and neither of them had the slot & guide setup to match the left side link.
Last thing, the top link is not built to provide the optimal working range. The ones that I have seen provided about 2" of retraction and 6" of extension from the implement level point front-back. The side link is designed to be fully retracted when level, so all you get is tilt down on the right side.

I disagree with this; if you look at the dedicated grade tractors; JD-210LE, Case, New Holland, maybe JCB?, built for the specific use. I belive our OP is trying to make a JD-210LE Light; and with a Heavy Duty, 6 ft BB, like a Gannon, or similar, with hydralic scarifiers, being able to control the depth is great when roughing up a bottom lift od rock (or existing), before placing the top lift. You don't actually want to losen up the compact material, just the top inch or two, and prevent "scabbing" with the top lift that isn't really tied into the bottom lift.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

You can change the scarifier depth by adjusting them in the square tube that they are mounted in. But that square tube is designed to be up or down, nothing in between. Thats why it locks in the down position if you look, you will see a hook that auto locks when the bar is all the way down.

If a person does try to go in between, there is a good chance that the linkage that operates the ripper bar will snap. I know this, because I have a 6' Gannon with hydraulic actuated scarifiers and my brother snapped the linkage that rotates the rotating bar holding the scarifiers.

It is designed and intended to be either up all the way, or down all the way and locked in place.

 

[paulsharvey]

You can change the scarifier depth by adjusting them in the square tube that they are mounted in. But that square tube is designed to be up or down, nothing in between. Thats why it locks in the down position if you look, you will see a hook that auto locks when the bar is all the way down.

If a person does try to go in between, there is a good chance that the linkage that operates the ripper bar will snap. I know this, because I have a 6' Gannon with hydraulic actuated scarifiers and my brother snapped the linkage that rotates the rotating bar holding the scarifiers.

It is designed and intended to be either up all the way, or down all the way and locked in place.

Hmm, ok, I believe you. I just have frequently seen them used in a sorta half engaged use, and didn't realize it was abuse.