Hydraulic auger recommendations for my FEL

[leonz]

My tractor has a ~18gpm flow rate (not sure on the PSI though). I'll be routing hydraulic lines from the (stock) rear remote up to the FEL to power the Auger, which should allow for continuous flow @ 18gpm.

I've been looking at the Danuser EP1530 which is rated for 15-30gpm. Looks like it can be had for $3K.
Also, any recommendations for a 24" auger bit for hard clay & frangible rock (sandstone in my case)?

Does anyone think I need to be worried about hydraulic loss routing from the rear remotes? I asked AI and it calculated the losses in the 1-2% range depending on the operating PSI of my tractors hydraulics.

Also, do I need a cross port relief valve? Some augers have this feature built in, but not the Danuser. Do I really need it?

Do not buy anything but a tree transplanting for your use.

The conical tree transplanting auger reduces the amount of resistance the auger as a whole will see and deal with as the
point of the auger with the bits will be able to dig and the auger flighting will carry the dirt and rocks away
with much less effort as the hole you are digging is wider as it drops and rises to the top at an angle which
creates less resistance to the material being carried to the top of the whole.

 

[Squirrel's242]

I would say the only caution would be most compact tractors don't have the GPM's to power the skid steer auger motors. But they do make motors that are rated down to 10gpm.

Here's a vid of a guy with the extreme example of a big auger motor on a little tractor. It got the job done, but man does that auger turn slow.

With a PTO auger, you have much more power available, but it kind of goes to waste because there's no down force.

I've got 6.7gpm flow on my Danuser EP615 and it is faster than that. Don't have a figure for you but next time it's hooked up I'll note it.

 

[Squirrel's242]

Except for the $$$$$, are there any downsides to a hydraulic FEL PHD?

The biggest downside I see right now is the view. I'm going to sort out how I can better see my point of dig over the front of the tractor so that I can make the small adjustments as I dig. Right now I get off the tractor and stand to the side while I dig so I can see progress or spot any adjustments then hop on. I do work with a spotter too. But I found the work more precise when I used the auger on the front of a Toolcat because the visibility was great.

On my attachment plate I do have the mounting point on the side so I can move the motor head from center mount to the edge but I don't want to use downforce on the loader on uneven arms. My concern is long term use that will end up tweaking the arms.

It does take some care to apply downforce at the right rate for how much the auger bit is breaking through the soil. If you apply too much too fast you lift the front of the tractor up and get the tires off the ground. The big deal is you might twist yourself sideways. Aside from the safety of that, you start making your hole crooked.

We've dig 23 holes at 5' deep in compacted red clay and sand stone, plus another 14 holes 2-3' deep in the past year and a half in 100*+ heat. You bet your buns I 100% prefer using the tractor over the one man auger, rock bar and clamshells.

 

[4570Man]

Compared to a pto auger, my hydraulic ssqa auger spins slow at around 100 rpm. It took a while to get used to the speed difference.
That video looked painfully slow, but it got the job done.

My hydraulic one spins fast enough that it will sling dirt away from the bit. It’s comparable to the speed I’ve seen from PTO ones.

 

[In.the.Piñons]

Do not buy anything but a tree transplanting for your use.

The conical tree transplanting auger reduces the amount of resistance the auger as a whole will see and deal with as the
point of the auger with the bits will be able to dig and the auger flighting will carry the dirt and rocks away
with much less effort as the hole you are digging is wider as it drops and rises to the top at an angle which
creates less resistance to the material being carried to the top of the whole.

I've already bought two auger bits; 24" & 9" HD bits for hard soil.

 

[In.the.Piñons]

I've got 6.7gpm flow on my Danuser EP615 and it is faster than that. Don't have a figure for you but next time it's hooked up I'll note it.

Your Dan is rated for 6-15gpm. Good to know that it works well on your 6.7gpm tractor.

The rating for my motor is 14-36gpm and my tractor is 18gpm, so we are both close to the minimum rating.

IIRC the motor in that video had a flow rate that was much higher than the tractor's rating.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

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My rear remote controls are positioned such that they are not readily accessible when I'm using the loader joystick.

The setup I'm getting from WR Long will still use one of their rear remotes (the kit I'm buying adds four to the existing two) to operate the grapple, but it's activated by a button on a replacement joystick. I went in this direction because they told me that their true 3rd function kit does not support continuous flow. While that doesn't matter for a grapple, it does matter for an auger. But still, their remotes don't flow at the same GPM as my tractors existing rear remotes (18 vs 12gpm), so I will still have to plug into a factory rear remote to operate/power the auger.

Are these diverters, or actual electric double acting valves?

 

[In.the.Piñons]

​

Are these diverters, or actual electric double acting valves?

It's not a diverter setup, but I'm not sure if it a double acting electric set up.

Basically, I'm going to have a set of four extra remotes on the rear of the tractor that will be controlled from inside the cab with a switch box. There's no need to switch between the factory remotes or the new bank of four remotes, everything can be actuated at the same time.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

It's not a diverter setup, but I'm not sure if it a double acting electric set up.

Basically, I'm going to have a set of four extra remotes on the rear of the tractor that will be controlled from inside the cab with a switch box. There's no need to switch between the factory remotes or the new bank of four remotes, everything can be actuated at the same time.

Well, if they are separate control valves that have a 12 GPM rating, get something else. A valve set rated with continuous flow (open center valve system)at 12 GPM is going to eventually burn up your hyd pump rated at 18 GPM. (Actually, I think it is a 17 GPM pump)
You need to be sure that what you get will handle 17 GPM without damaging anything in your hydraulic system.

 

[In.the.Piñons]

Well, if they are separate control valves that have a 12 GPM rating, get something else. A valve set rated with continuous flow (open center valve system)at 12 GPM is going to eventually burn up your hyd pump rated at 18 GPM. (Actually, I think it is a 17 GPM pump)
You need to be sure that what you get will handle 17 GPM without damaging anything in your hydraulic system.

I won't be hooking anything up to the new WR Long remotes that will require contentious flow (just using it for a grapple, hydo top link and angle/tilt/offset for my 6 way blade). When I need to use the auger, I'll just plug into the stock rear remotes.

Or am I missing something?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

YES, you are missing something. A 12 GPM valve will only flow 12 GPM through the body of the valve. (Work port flow is not even a consideration in this) So any time that your tractor engine is running it will be pumping more than 12 GPM through the body of the 12 GPM valve, thus heating the oil. I suppose that if you NEVER run the tractor for more than a few minutes (3-5 is a few) then you will be fine. Otherwise, get BIGGER valves. Unless you just want hydraulic issues later down the road.

 

[In.the.Piñons]

YES, you are missing something. A 12 GPM valve will only flow 12 GPM through the body of the valve. (Work port flow is not even a consideration in this) So any time that your tractor engine is running it will be pumping more than 12 GPM through the body of the 12 GPM valve, thus heating the oil. I suppose that if you NEVER run the tractor for more than a few minutes (3-5 is a few) then you will be fine. Otherwise, get BIGGER valves. Unless you just want hydraulic issues later down the road.

I see what you're saying. I will check with WR long on Monday (hasn't shipped yet) but we discussed my expectations at length so I can only assume that I'm incorrectly categorizing it.

It's somewhat conflicting that he said it was not a switching system but he also said I could get 18gpm by just hooking up to the factory rear remotes.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I see what you're saying. I will check with WR long on Monday (hasn't shipped yet) but we discussed my expectations at length so I can only assume that I'm incorrectly categorizing it.

It's somewhat conflicting that he said it was not a switching system but he also said I could get 18gpm by just hooking up to the factory rear remotes.

I understand that they said it would not flow more than 12 GPM through the work ports, so not good for your auger. But typically on those types of valves, the work ports are all that the actual valve flows safely. You need the pressure and tank ports to be #10 ports to not have any issues.
If they are providing that size of manifold, then you will be all set.

If you went with diverters, you could have all of the auxiliary controls on a control grip and the actual cylinder control would be with a manual valve, not an electric valve that is either fully open or closed no feathering with those electric controls. You could control 4 separate functions and never move your hand from the remote lever.

But I doubt that they even offer that.

 

[In.the.Piñons]

I understand that they said it would not flow more than 12 GPM through the work ports, so not good for your auger. But typically on those types of valves, the work ports are all that the actual valve flows safely. You need the pressure and tank ports to be #10 ports to not have any issues.
If they are providing that size of manifold, then you will be all set.

I will confirm with them on Monday, but I do know that they did customize the manifold for my tractor as it has a higher flow than the standard kit. But I appreciate the help and will 100% make sure I know what I'm getting. I don't want to screw up my pump!

 

[In.the.Piñons]

So the kit arrived the other day. The manifold will allow for my tractors 18gpm flow on the stock remotes and 12gpm on the four WR Long remotes.

The hoses that run from the rear remotes, up to the torque tube on the FEL (to run the auger & grapple), were undersized (3/8th). They are sending out the correct ones (5/8th).

 

[leonz]

I've already bought two auger bits; 24" & 9" HD bits for hard soil.

I would return them for a 24 inch tree transplanting auger.

 

[In.the.Piñons]

So I got my holes (2.5ft x ~6ft) dug today.

My rocky, clay soil fought me the entire way. The 2.5ft auger bit was pretty useless when it hit any rock, as it would just stall out. It worked fine in soil with small roots though.

I had to put on the 9" auger bit and use it to break up the rock in the soil and even then I had to finish the job with a long pry bar to break up some of the rock. It took about 4 hour to get the two holes dug!

Wetting down the spoils sure did work great for getting it to stick to the auger so I could pull that stuff out of the hole.

 

[Squirrel's242]

So I got my holes (2.5ft x ~6ft) dug today.

My rocky, clay soil fought me the entire way. The 2.5ft auger bit was pretty useless when it hit any rock, as it would just stall out. It worked fine in soil with small roots though.

I had to put on the 9" auger bit and use it to break up the rock in the soil and even then I had to finish the job with a long pry bar to break up some of the rock. It took about 4 hour to get the two holes dug!

Wetting down the spoils sure did work great for getting it to stick to the auger so I could pull that stuff out of the hole.

Good work getting it done. Dealing with rock can really slow the progress but, you did it. When we needed too we use a rock bar to break up the compacted soil or rock that was interfering then charged on. An right about using the water to make the dirt stick. We have sand and when that was dry it would just sift out the bottom of the clamshells when cleaning out the hole. Water helped. Even to stick it to the auger bit.

4hrs on 2 holes is fine cause it's done. Imagine if you didn't have the tools you used? How much longer or how much more your body would hurt this morning??

 

[In.the.Piñons]

Imagine if you didn't have the tools you used? How much longer or how much more your body would hurt this morning??

Thanks for the encouragement.

I started out digging these holes a few months ago with an 8" electric hand auger (which I've used a bunch in the past) but the soil in this particular spot was too much for that tool. I'm sure if my life depended on it I could have got it done, but like you said it would have been too much stress on my body. Not worth beating myself up now that I have a tractor and can just spend my way out of the problem

 

[alexbennet]

That setup should work fine. 18 GPM fits right in the EP1530’s range, and routing from the rear remotes usually only loses a small amount of flow if you keep hose runs clean and the right size. I’d definitely fit a cross-port relief — it’s cheap protection if the bit binds up.

For sandstone and heavy clay, a rock bit or combo bit with carbide teeth will dig slower but handle abuse better.