Hydraulic Issue Mahindra 4025

[morpheous71]

Hi All
New to the board. I recently bought a Mahindra 4025 which I'm already in love with.
Added a few mod's, sun canopy (basketball backdrop), aux. lights, grapple (versatech).
So the problem I'm having is this;
Installed the grapple and decided to run it off the power beyond with a joystick controller/switch. Used a directional solonoid valve and like I said I by passed the cut into the powerbeyond then went through the valve (4 way) then out other side to the PTO, then the other two lines go down to the grapple for open and close. Took forever to figure out the switch, push button 3 way, but I finally got it and hooked everything up and it worked fine. Had a few leaks which had to be fixed up but I got that done. I thought everything was fine until I tried the lever for the 3 point hitch. It didn't work.....so I on hooked everything again set it up the way it originally was and then tried the lever again and now the up/down for the hitch works??? The PTO works either way....so I have limited understanding on this but I'm figuring I have too much load on the hydraulics or maybe not enough fluid getting to the back because the lines I used are alittle smaller and the valve holes are definitely more constrictive....??? Can anyone help with this problem, hopefully my description makes sense. I'll take some pic's now and then attach them to the inquiry????
Here is the original set-up.:confused2:



New pic's, showing the set-up but the lines have temp. been switched back to original loader spec's.

 

[J_J]

I am going to assume you tried to connect a true 3rd function valve after the FEL valve and then on to the 3pt.

I don't think you mean PTO, but 3pt

Here is how that is done.

From FEL PB, to IN on the 3rd function valve. The OUT port hose goes to the 3pt input.

The 3rd function A/B ports hoses goes to the grapple cylinder.

So now, the flow is something like this

Pump to FEl, to 3rd valve, to 3pt, to tank.

I see three hoses, where is the OUT hose, going to the back of tractor. Is it on the backside of the valve?

I am thinking you ran the OUT from the 3rd function to the tank, bypassing the 3pt.

Anyway, take the OUT hose from the 3rd function port and run that hose to the 3pt input. You should now have all valves in a series flow path.

 

[morpheous71]

Thanks for the reply. I added some pic's hope that helps.
The FEL valve looking down from the drivers seat, goes like this, 1 hose on left (pressure in), 4 hoses on top (loader,up/downetc), 2 hoses on right (top one PB and lower one T). I think this is right, I checked double check etcetc the manual many times.
I took off the PB and hooked it up to the T side of the new valve, then I took new hose and went from the PB to the other side of the new valve. The T side hose goes on to something just below the seat. So I think I'm doing it the way you described. The other hose coming off the FEL valve the one I described as the Tank line it also goes to the back but ends up right around the transmission breather valve.?????

Does this help. Sorry for my limited understanding. This is my first tractor and first time around hydraulics.

 

[morpheous71]

.
I see three hoses, where is the OUT hose, going to the back of tractor. Is it on the backside of the valve?

I am thinking you ran the OUT from the 3rd function to the tank, bypassing the 3pt.

Anyway, take the OUT hose from the 3rd function port and run that hose to the 3pt input. You should now have all valves in a series flow path.

I'm really paranoid to try another set-up at this point, I was under the impression that if I mixed up the PB line and the T line coming out of the FEL valve I would blow my pump. I saw this on a utube video and the guy really went on about how this simple mistake would cost you big time?

 

[morpheous71]

The picture with my hand in it shows me holding the new line I ran from the FEL PB line to the IN on the 3rd function valve. So again to clarify, I on hooked the originl PB line which went under the front of seat to the OUT on the 3rd function valve and i took the new hose that I am holding up and hooked it up to the PB valve coming out of the FEL valve.

 

[morpheous71]

Okay hopefully this is my last ditch attempt at my explanation.

This pic shows were the OUT goes from the 3rd function valve, originally the PB hose went here. I have no idea what this is under the seat????


This pic shows were the Tank line goes from the FEL valve, this is still original, I never messed with this hose. It's directly behind the seat just right of the PTO.


and just to be clear on things here is the original valve set-up, starting from the left;
2 hoses top (yellowtape) PB and bottom (bluetape) T
4 hoses in middle (blue,red,yellow,black---to the loader)
1 hose on right (redtape) pressure from pump


and heres the owners manual information





I hope this helps clarify everything. :licking: All this typing and pic's has made me hungry...

 

[J_J]

If you are pumping fluid and not going into relief, then the fluid is going somewhere.

You should have FEL operation if you connected things like I said..

If you have no 3pt, then you do not have the solenoid OUT port going to the 3pt input.

Try this and you will know if the hose are wrong.

While using the FEL, see if you also have 3pt. If you have the hoses wrong, the flow from the FEL tank OUT port will feed the 3pt, and that is wrong. .

If you have 3pt operation only using the 3pt valve, then the flow is correct.

You can use air to test everything if you want.

Just add a air chuck to the IN port on the FEL and operate the levers and switches to open ports.

How many hoses on the solenoid valve. I can't see anything on the back side.

 

[morpheous71]

Thanks again. I will try that test to see what happens.
The solenoid valve has 4 ports, A B and P T.
I guess at this point I'm a little sketchy switching the hoses around.....as far as I'm understanding I most likely have the wrong hose connected to the input of the third function valve and also the wrong output.....I think!

So do I run the risk of blowing my pump if I hook this up wrong????? :confused3:

So I'm thinking this is what I should do. Instead of adding a hose from the FEL valve PB line to the input of the third function valve, I should run a hose from the FEL valve T line to the input of the third function valve.

Then;

Instead of hooking the PB line up to the output of the third function valve I should but routing the Tank line to it.

Does that even make any sense?????

 

[J_J]

After all that I have said, you can't go wrong.

Do you have the PB adapter installed?

Run a hose from the PB adapter to the IN port on the 3rd valve.

Run the OUT on the 3rd function valve to the 3pt.

The A/B go to the grapple.

That is all.

Your flow will now be like this.

Pump, FEL, 3rd, 3pt, tank.

Everything should now work like it should.

Contact me by PM and I will give you my phone number.

 

[J_J]

Just talked to the Prince hyd rep and the opinion is that if you connect it wrong, you could damage the valve.

Although the ports on the subplate is rated for 3000 to 5000 psi, the solenoid valve itself is not.

So input pressure connected wrong and back pressure could damage the valve.

 

[morpheous71]

Thanks for all your help JJ, I have been busy working since the last post so I'm off today and about to try to figure out what the problem is. I'll keep you posted. Tapping on wood that all ends in success for the newbie.

 

[morpheous71]

Well here's the latest update, somewhere from hydraulicland.....lol
Tried some testing on the system and found that, hooked up the way I have it, I have no 3PT power, but loader and grapple functions do work.

I tried operating 3PT when the loader was operational and nothing...but when I used the grapple (open/close) switch, the 3PT was also working!!!

So I decided to diagnose a little further and took hose off going into 3PT and checked the flow when tractor was running and it had no flow but when the grapple switch was activated bursts of fluid would come out.

Next I hooked that back up and moved to the hose going into the Tank and tested that, when tractor was started it would flow constant, not a blast like the 3PT line but lots of volume. When the grapple switch or loader was operated the flow would stop also,

Next I moved onto the line coming out of the loader valve, the PB line, it also had constant flow like that of the Tankline.

:confused2:So I figured at this point that it had to be the directional valve I purchased, I had no idea that there are different types of these and they all have different functions.:ashamed: I just bought the one that the storeclerk told me I needed and naively thought it would simply be the right one. :thumbdown:

My valve will not allow the PB flow to come through the Input and then proceed through the Output. Instead it allows the flow in and feeds all the three other lines only when the switch is operated. So I obviously have the wrong one.:shocked:

So maybe someone can point me in the right direction, below are the options I have from my Princess Auto dealer, this is were I bought the first one, so I plan on bringing it back and switching out for the right one.

The valve I have is called;
3-position,4-way,ClosedCenter
(Being spring-centered it will remain in its home all-ports blocked position until it is shifted electrically.)

Options I can replace it with are the following, with a brief description fro PrincessAuto's website below.

1. 3-position,4-way, HCenter
(In the center neutral position all the ports are connected which will allow the motor to freewheel or the cylinder to float.)


2. 3-position,4-way, MotorCenter
(The valves work ports are connected to tank in the neutral position and the pressure port is blocked. This will allow the motor to freewheel or the cylinders to float.)

3. 3-position,4-way, TandemCenter
(In the center neutral position the work ports are blocked and the pressure and tank ports are connected.)

My best guess is I need the TandemCenter.

Any feedback would be much appreciated at this point...................:newhere:

 

[J_J]

You have the wrong valve in the first place.

All your valves should be open center.

I believe #3 is the one you want.

The hyd flow should run through the solenoid valve at all times. When you are using the 3rd function valve, pump flow goes into the cyl, the flow downstream is the flow from the cyl you are controlling. When you release the switch, the flow becomes pump flow.

 

[morpheous71]

Exactly, that's what I thought was going on which has lead to my additional confusion, I have the wrong valve.......lol :duh::duh::duh: NEWB.......:tractor:

 

[Doug p.]

Did you ever get the hydraulics working wright because I having the same problem hoping you got yours working and would help me on mine on what valve it took and where to put it . Thanks

 

[Doug p.]

I meant I am having the same problem