HST vs. Gear Trans

/ HST vs. Gear Trans #41  
HST fan responding again :)

... The gear wins out towing, ground engagement ...

My 3.5 ton Kubota Grand L3940 HST has no problem spinning all 4 wheels when trying to pull something impossible, so I'm not sure how a geared tractor could tow or engage the ground better?

... and just crusing around.

My Kubota Grand L3940 HST has a sliding cruise control lever which can be set at any infinite speeds (not gear limited) between 0 and ~16 mph, so I'm not sure how a geared tractor would cruise better?

I'm wondering if your HST machine is one of the earlier versions with just a pedal, without the controls & options offered now?
 
/ HST vs. Gear Trans #42  
HST fan :D .
both points quoted are somewhat related, the gear tractor gets more power to the ground at much lower rpm which makes for a better cruising experience, for me :D
Lower noise, vibration and the joy of almost being able to count each power stroke are the major contributors IMHO :D

Of my 2 HST's, one is foot pedal controlled and the other hand lever controlled. I much prefer the foot controlled and it is my primary worker.

I no longer have my old TE20 but it was a gear tractor w/working turning brakes, that was an unbeatable combination when plowing and discing. Once in the proper gear range I rarely clutched and used the turning brakes to help spin at the ends of the rows. Great ol machine.

I primarily finish mow and I much prefer the HST for that duty.
YUMV
Dave
 
/ HST vs. Gear Trans #43  
I have both a Kubota L4850, a 5 cylinder shuttle shift tractor with 8 forward gears and a L3940 HST+. I completely agree with you. When I am ripping with the box scrapper its nice to have the gears, when I'm doing any kind of finesse type work be it loader, loader with grapples, mowing, post holes or tilling, the HST is killer.

HST fan :D .
both points quoted are somewhat related, the gear tractor gets more power to the ground at much lower rpm which makes for a better cruising experience, for me :D
Lower noise, vibration and the joy of almost being able to count each power stroke are the major contributors IMHO :D

Of my 2 HST's, one is foot pedal controlled and the other hand lever controlled. I much prefer the foot controlled and it is my primary worker.

I no longer have my old TE20 but it was a gear tractor w/working turning brakes, that was an unbeatable combination when plowing and discing. Once in the proper gear range I rarely clutched and used the turning brakes to help spin at the ends of the rows. Great ol machine.

I primarily finish mow and I much prefer the HST for that duty.
YUMV
Dave
 
Last edited:
/ HST vs. Gear Trans #44  
HST fan responding again :)
My 3.5 ton Kubota Grand L3940 HST has no problem spinning all 4 wheels when trying to pull something impossible, so I'm not sure how a geared tractor could tow or engage the ground better?

Discounting traction, that HST has a fluid coupling rather then metal to metal (as with gears). You'll see slippage and heat buildup.

In the real world, most of us TBNers won't see any difference...we'll run out of traction.
In the real world, HST and gears selection is nothing more then a matter of choice.
 
/ HST vs. Gear Trans #45  
As to shifting on the fly, as long as you double-clutch you can do it with a gear drive (non-synchro) transmission. My Kubota is much happier doing it shifting up, going down isn't as good for some reason. I rarely do it, but I prefer it to lugging the engine starting off in 4th and high range.

Sean
 
/ HST vs. Gear Trans #46  
So what your telling me Roy is that my L4850 with an oil immersed EverClutch is not actually made of a friction lining similar to that like a brake or a car clutch but rather metal to metal. Thats where my coupling takes place from the engine to the drive train. Interesting. In the end, my HST also uses gears, I guess in a similar analogy you could say it is "metal coupled" :laughing:

Discounting traction, that HST has a fluid coupling rather then metal to metal (as with gears). You'll see slippage and heat buildup.

In the real world, most of us TBNers won't see any difference...we'll run out of traction.
In the real world, HST and gears selection is nothing more then a matter of choice.
 
/ HST vs. Gear Trans #47  
So what your telling me Roy is that my L4850 with an oil immersed EverClutch is not actually made of a friction lining similar to that like a brake or a car clutch but rather metal to metal. Thats where my coupling takes place from the engine to the drive train. Interesting. In the end, my HST also uses gears, I guess in a similar analogy you could say it is "metal coupled" :laughing:

You know...I work in fluid transmission (power generation and such) and I made an assumption that's probably incorrect.
The fluid couplings I've worked with don't use direct metal to metal contact, but a series of rotors and vanes (and the fluid which may be a hydraulic fluid or an ATF) actually connects the mechanical transmission components to the power source (in my case, large electric motors...not engines).
So, since I have never had an HST nor do I expect to own one, can't say I've ever looked at an illustrated breakdown/schematic other then in passing.
The assumption was that HST would use similar principles which it may...or may not.
In our case, the coupling is there to provide a "soft start" and has fusible plugs to vent the system if the fluid gets too hot. Remember, liquids don't compress...just generate heat.

So, if your HST works in the same manner, you'll get a degree of slippage which should ultimately vent out in some way to prevent the mechanical component damage.

That sound about right?
 
/ HST vs. Gear Trans #48  
dex3361 said:
I have shut my HST tractor off on the hill and never experienced the runaway tractor that you describe. My understanding is that if you do not set the brake and the tractor creeps forward far enough to pump the fluid out of the HST then it will freewheel. But I do not think it is immediate like if you missed a gear or if your foot slipped off of the clutch (both of which I have done with a geared tractor and it was scary and could have been tragic) I operate a HST on the hills and find that the HST is safer because you don't need the brakes while changing directions or when stopping.

I agree with you. Lots of hills and I have shifted down from m til l plenty of times on hills with my hst. I find it to be an attention issue.
 
/ HST vs. Gear Trans #49  
HST fan responding again :)

My 3.5 ton Kubota Grand L3940 HST has no problem spinning all 4 wheels when trying to pull something impossible, so I'm not sure how a geared tractor could tow or engage the ground better?
I see you have added 1-1/2 tons to your tractor. My 6.5T 7520 will spin its 4 loaded Ags at 800 rpm idle in 1st - a 1.7MPH gear. Add a bunch more weight and even bringing the engine up to operating range wont conquer the added traction. Your HST would eventually limit this way by the relief valve popping. The gear would overtorque while slowly stalling. The HST would just stop. I have experienced this on HST and it is extremely frustrating.
Im not saying I dont like em -[a lot]- but that gear puts out more and gives ample warning of impending limit.
larry
 
/ HST vs. Gear Trans #50  
Wait, let me come back and read this after some coffee...:thumbsup:


Two cups of coffee later and I'm still confused, my head hurts. Lets see, which tractor to jump on this morning, my gear or my HST, decisions.


You know...I work in fluid transmission (power generation and such) and I made an assumption that's probably incorrect.
The fluid couplings I've worked with don't use direct metal to metal contact, but a series of rotors and vanes (and the fluid which may be a hydraulic fluid or an ATF) actually connects the mechanical transmission components to the power source (in my case, large electric motors...not engines).
So, since I have never had an HST nor do I expect to own one, can't say I've ever looked at an illustrated breakdown/schematic other then in passing.
The assumption was that HST would use similar principles which it may...or may not.
In our case, the coupling is there to provide a "soft start" and has fusible plugs to vent the system if the fluid gets too hot. Remember, liquids don't compress...just generate heat.

So, if your HST works in the same manner, you'll get a degree of slippage which should ultimately vent out in some way to prevent the mechanical component damage.

That sound about right?
 
Last edited:
/ HST vs. Gear Trans #51  
I see you have added 1-1/2 tons to your tractor ...

Kubota Grand L3940 HST + foldable ROPS: 3,627 lbs
Front end loader (model LA724): 1,168 lbs
Bucket (model "Square 72", "Quick Attach"): 331 lbs
Water weight in rear tires (tire size 17.5L-24): 515 lbs each
Total: 6,156 lbs

This is with no 3PH implement, no me (155 lbs), none of the other "stuff" riding with me (tools, chains, cooler, pole saw & pole saw mount, etc). Not sure if it includes fluids.
 
/ HST vs. Gear Trans #52  
You know...I work in fluid transmission (power generation and such) and I made an assumption that's probably incorrect.
The fluid couplings I've worked with don't use direct metal to metal contact, but a series of rotors and vanes (and the fluid which may be a hydraulic fluid or an ATF) actually connects the mechanical transmission components to the power source (in my case, large electric motors...not engines).
So, since I have never had an HST nor do I expect to own one, can't say I've ever looked at an illustrated breakdown/schematic other then in passing.
The assumption was that HST would use similar principles which it may...or may not.
In our case, the coupling is there to provide a "soft start" and has fusible plugs to vent the system if the fluid gets too hot. Remember, liquids don't compress...just generate heat.

So, if your HST works in the same manner, you'll get a degree of slippage which should ultimately vent out in some way to prevent the mechanical component damage.

That sound about right?
HSTs are a variable displacement pump. Not the same as a torque converter on an automatic tranny. Very not the same.
 
/ HST vs. Gear Trans #53  
HSTs are a variable displacement pump. Not the same as a torque converter on an automatic tranny. Very not the same.

Well, I wasn't describing a torque converter on an automatic transmisson...totally different animal.
However, where ever there is a fluid interface, there will be a degree of slippage. That's what prevents more serious damage. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a fusible plug in there somewhere.
Guess I'll do a bit of reading on HST since I do have the Deere service manual.
 
/ HST vs. Gear Trans #55  
Gear,,cause thats what I got,,,if I had hst,it would be that,now,that question is answered:laughing:
 
/ HST vs. Gear Trans #57  
For your cause, how long do you feel that you want to drive a tractor with armstrong power steering with a loader on it? I do hope you aren't a pencil pusher because it will get old FAST! We know your wife won't like the manual steering!

I have to second the comment about the power steering. Also, HST is much better and faster for FEL work. These little tractors (the B2320 included) are quite fuel efficient anyway. I have previously owned a B7100DT (gear drive), B7100HST (hydro), and now own a B7610. I didn't notice a difference in fuel consumption between the gear and hydro B7100's, but the B7610 does use more fuel than either of the B7100's. This is simply because B7610 has a 1100cc 24HP engine, had the B7100's have a 750cc, 16 HP engine. That said, for loader work, the B7100, IMHO, is just as capable as the B7610 (which is very comparable to the B2320 you are looking at).

The gear-drive B7100 was my first tractor. I purchased it primarily for loader work, box blade, and post hole digging. After about 20 hours of mostly FEL work, I bought the B7100HST, as the non-syncro gear drive got old with the back and forth of FEL work. I synchronized transmission would be much nicer than a non syncro one, but I still think hydro is best for this job. Gear drive shows it efficiency advantage on larger ag tractors pulling plows and other ground engaging implements all day long.

I put about 100 hours on the B7100 HST over the course of a year, and quickly tired of the "arm-strong" steering when doing loader work, but it was fine for everything else, including moving firewood pallets with the rear carryall (which made it easier to steer), and clearing snow from the driveway with the rear blade.

When I found a great deal on my B7610 ($7500 w/ a post-hole digger, and a york rake), I jumped on it, and sold the B7100HST (for $7000, including a cheaper post hold digger than came with the B7610, and also the york rake that came with it -- already had one).

Of course, you are looking at two completely different price ranges when comparing a B2320 to a B7100, so price definitely has to weigh in. If you can swing the B2320, I say go for it. If you need to keep the price low, you can't go wrong with a B7100, although, I'd definitely go for HST. If you're going to do a lot of FEL work, then you're better served with power steering.

You should be able to pick up a similar-sized older Kubota with power steering for not a lot more than some ask for their B7100's.

Models to look for that have power steering (in approx order of age, oldest to newest, HP in ()'s).
B1750 (20), B2150 (24)
B7500 (21), B1700 (17), B2100 (21), B2400 (24), B2700 (27)
B7510 (21), B7610 (24), B2410 (24), B2710 (27), B2910 (29)
B2320 (23), B2620 (26), B2920 (29)

I didn't list the Bxx30 models, as they are even more expensive than the B2320 you mentioned. I also didn't list the B8200 (19 hp) and B9200 (23HP) (from the 80's, which are a little larger than the B7100, because I don't know if either of these has power steering, but they might).

Good luck with your purchase, and learn from my experiences, and buy your third tractor first.
 
/ HST vs. Gear Trans #58  
Is there any reason to why HST isnt used on larger HP platforms?

Probably 1) cost; 2) less power lost with a gear transmission, often more important on bigger tractors. It's easier and cheaper to overcome the power loss in a small tractor than it is in a 50 or 100+ hp tractor. A 20%(?) loss is easy to overcome on a 20 hp tractor, more expensive on a 100 hp tractor.

Ken
 
/ HST vs. Gear Trans #59  
What's the general price difference between gear & HST for a compact tractor?

TIA,
Dana
 
/ HST vs. Gear Trans #60  
What's the general price difference between gear & HST for a compact tractor?

TIA,
Dana

Using my Kubota Grand L 3940 as an example:

Fully Sychronized transmission $22,159
Glide Shift $23,269 ... $1,110 over the Fully Sychronized transmission
Hydrostatic transmission $23,749 ... $480 over the Glide Shift transmission

These are MSRPs, so I would assume the actual prices would be a little closer together.
 

Marketplace Items

2015 Ford Taurus AWD Sedan (A64557)
2015 Ford Taurus...
UWS TBS-69 Truck Bed Tool Box (A64556)
UWS TBS-69 Truck...
Barrel (A64557)
Barrel (A64557)
IRANCH Tire Changing Machine (A64194)
IRANCH Tire...
2008 Toyota Camry Sedan (A61574)
2008 Toyota Camry...
2002 Ditch Witch 1230H Walk-Behind Trencher (A64553)
2002 Ditch Witch...
 
Top