Ballast How much counterweight do i need?

[Bull Of The Woods]

I know this has been posted many times before and I have read a lot about it. I would like to find out how much weight I need to keep my rear wheels on the ground and maximize my FEL. I have read on here that it should give me that info in the owner's manuals, I have not been able to find it. I have also read that it should possibly be as much as 75% of my FEL capacity. It seems many of you guys on here are in the 1000-1200 lb range. Just want to pick the brains of some of the more experienced tractor owner/operators out there. I have a LS XR 4140 the lift cap. on the FEL is rated at 2700. Would something in the 1000- 1400 range be enough? I'm thinking it would, probably won't max out the loader very much if ever, but if I ever do need to, it would be nice to have the right amount of counterweight. Thank you in advance for any help !!

 

[kthompson]

My experience on this is very limited but this summer bought a JD with front end loader and they loaded the rear tires as they said to properly ballast it. I think have had the bucket fully loaded with dirt and it was very stable. Nothing on the 3 pth. This is not a compact tractor it weighs over 7,000 pounds with cab giving weight also.

 

[motownbrowne]

How far back from the tractor your ballast is is as important a number as how much it weighs. An 800# bush hog for example will be much more effective than an 800# barrel of concrete between your three point arms. I think you're in the ballpark with your numbers, but I just wanted to point out that weight isn't the only factor. What type of ballast are you considering?

 

[Bull Of The Woods]

I have my rears loaded also. Was thinking I might want to use the FEL to lift some logs off the ground to cut for firewood. Like I said....kinda wanted to do a little brain pickin.

 

[Bull Of The Woods]

Was thinking of filling a barrel with concrete, which from what I have read will give me about 1100 (I think) if I don't go the barrel route I might build a box and pour concrete in it. I saw a very sweet looking one on here that was formed up, wouldn't mind trying to duplicate that one. If I do that I was thinking I would make it shorter and extending it farther back to get the greater effect of the weight and also keep a lower center of gravity. If I use a barrel I might lay it down instead of standing it upright to get the same effect.

 

[motownbrowne]

Was thinking of filling a barrel with concrete, which from what I have read will give me about 1100 (I think) if I don't go the barrel route I might build a box and pour concrete in it. I saw a very sweet looking one on here that was formed up, wouldn't mind trying to duplicate that one. If I do that I was thinking I would make it shorter and extending it farther back to get the greater effect of the weight and also keep a lower center of gravity. If I use a barrel I might lay it down instead of standing it upright to get the same effect.

I've been thinking about filling a barrel with concrete myself actually. Now that I have a second tractor to use for snow removal I can keep my skidding winch on the Kubota all winter, so I'm thinking about making the barrel so that it connects (probably with chains) to the winch and orienting it horizontally. That way I can pick it up or drop it off depending on if I'm skidding logs, or using the FEL to carry crates of firewood. Our tractors are fairly similar in size and lift capacity. If your barrel is being used alone, I'd probably try to get it to be as heavy as possible. In my case it'll be further back and used with my 450# winch, so I wouldn't need it to be quite as heavy.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

The way I see it, you want the weight to be about as much as your 3pt can lift before it gets the front too light for steering. It's not only about keeping the back tires on the ground but trying to take weight off the front axle. Think of the tractor like a teeter-totter centered over the front axle. If you have enough weight on the FEL that the rear tires come off the ground, the entire weight of the machine is on the front axle and that would include the weight of any too-small of a counterweight. You want LOTS of counter weight to guarantee that the rear tires stay firmly planted.

I'm running 850 lbs barrel mounted fully behind the 3pt mount and I'm only rated to lift 1100 on the FEL and it's none too much for my B3300.

What's the 3pt rating on your 4140?

 

[Underdog57]

I have a R4041H and I believe my 3pt is rated for 2700# also. I built a 1800# box for mine and it works good but I don't think I needed quite so much weight. I think if you stayed in the 1200# - 1500# range you would be in good shape....IMO

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...954d1396107423-my-ballast-box-build-image-jpg

 

[George2615]

Using my bucket for snow I don't use any 3 pt. weight but I do have the rear tires filled. Using the loader for dirt or stone I use a 3 pt. cement filled barrel (about 900 lb) or I can use an old safe I put brackets on for a 3 pt. weight. That weighs over 1200 lb. I'm going to buy a digital hanging crane scale shortly so I'll have a more accurate way to measure heavy weights.

 

[Deere Dude]

Was thinking of filling a barrel with concrete, which from what I have read will give me about 1100 (I think) if I don't go the barrel route I might build a box and pour concrete in it. I saw a very sweet looking one on here that was formed up, wouldn't mind trying to duplicate that one. If I do that I was thinking I would make it shorter and extending it farther back to get the greater effect of the weight and also keep a lower center of gravity. If I use a barrel I might lay it down instead of standing it upright to get the same effect.

I'm not sure I would make it stick out the back farther than needed because it will be a bigger chance of hitting something with it. I have a heavy finish mower but I like a ballast box for doing logs because it is so much easier to get around with, even though the mower would work.

 

[gladehound]

How much counter weight to use depends on what you're doing. I also have a similar size tractor to yours. My FEL is rated for ~2700 at full height and ~3700 pounds at ground level. I have 1000 pounds of fill in the rear tires and a 200 pound cage so that's 1200 extra pounds over the rear axle all the time. Here is how I set up for different activities...

Snow removal - nothing on the 3pt. 400 pounds on the draw bar as close to the tractor as possible. (weight far back will take weight off the front axle and make steering poor, cause the front to lift when FEL in float mode, and cause front to push sideways with an angled plow.

Dirt / gravel with standard bucket (~13 cubic foot) - same as above for snow. No problems. This is only about 1500 pounds max

For anything above 1500 pounds in the FEL I get rid of the 400 pounds the draw bard and put 900 pounds 24" behind the 3pt eyes. This works OK. But I would like more back there. My manual recommends ~1,000 pounds on the 3pt. For max lifting I think 2,000 pounds 24" behind the eyes would be nice just to make things easier on the front axle.

 

[oosik]

With my grapple installed I can lift a little over 3000 pounds - according to the charts on the loader. My tractor with the grapple and rear blade weighs right at 9500 pounds. I have 1500 pounds of Rimguard in the rear tires and usually have the rear blade attached when I use the grapple. The rear blade weight 565 pounds, the land plane grading scraper weighs 785 pounds & chipper weighs 800 pounds.

My point being - the weight of the implement and where its center of mass is behind the tractor will have significant bearing on the amount I can lift before I get that weird "light in the seat of the pants" feeling. I've been there, lifting large rocks around the property. The land plane grading scraper allows for the greatest lifting capacity with the grapple because the center of mass is so far behind the tractor. However, what a nightmare trying to navigate around with that thing hanging out the back!!! So I will normally have the rear blade attached. Besides, IMHO, I don't think its that much fun running right on the cutting edge all the time. There are just too many unknowns that will spring up to bite you anyhow and having a safety margin could make a big difference.

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

Was thinking of filling a barrel with concrete, which from what I have read will give me about 1100 (I think) if I don't go the barrel route I might build a box and pour concrete in it. I saw a very sweet looking one on here that was formed up, wouldn't mind trying to duplicate that one. If I do that I was thinking I would make it shorter and extending it farther back to get the greater effect of the weight and also keep a lower center of gravity. If I use a barrel I might lay it down instead of standing it upright to get the same effect.

Who's ballast box did you like? I'd go about 1200# close in too. :2cents:

 

[Bull Of The Woods]

Made it back, WOW lots of help!!! To answer CDN Farmboy's question. My 3 pt. lift cap. is 2750 and FEL is 2715 I believe. And to you Luke, If memory serves me correctly I think the guys name was "Racer". Don't hold me to that. It was a really nice counterweight he formed up, kinda "T" shaped, I thought if I did one like that I might like to make it not so tall but make it longer out the back of the tractor to get at least equal the weight he did or possible even more, and in doing so I could have a lower center of gravity.

 

[Bull Of The Woods]

I may not need all that much weight all that often, but if and when I did, it sure would be nice to be able to hook up and do the job. I had my pallet forks on a few weeks ago and thought i'd move a couple of logs at the same time. Slid the forks under and pulled back on the lever and the only thing that lifted was the rear wheels off the ground! So I scratched that idea. Then curiousity got the best of me and I began to search the net for a weight table that might give me some idea of the weight of those logs. Given the diameter on each end of the logs and the length, I think I was trying to lift about 2500 lbs with no counter weight, only rears filled with rimguard. So, the logs are still there, didn't try only one at a time, since they are not in the way i'll just wait till I get some kind of counter weight then i'll go to work. Thanks for all the responses and ideas and help!

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

Made it back, WOW lots of help!!! To answer CDN Farmboy's question. My 3 pt. lift cap. is 2750 and FEL is 2715 I believe. And to you Luke, If memory serves me correctly I think the guys name was "Racer". Don't hold me to that. It was a really nice counterweight he formed up, kinda "T" shaped, I thought if I did one like that I might like to make it not so tall but make it longer out the back of the tractor to get at least equal the weight he did or possible even more, and in doing so I could have a lower center of gravity.

Others might not agree with me but my way of thinking you'd want 2000 lbs or more back there for working with max lift of the fel

 

[LD1]

I agree. 2k is about right.

1000# plus your loaded tires "may" allow you to lift 2500#, but you arent doing the front axle any favors.

Counterweight is about more than just keeping the front end down. You need to take weight off the rear axle. Not enough weight back there can be WORSE than no weight at all.

IE: no weight on at all........your FEL may only be able to lift 1000# before the back tires lift, so you have the 1000# load + the whole weight of the tractor ALL on the front axles.

Now lest say you put 1000# counterweight on, and this now allows you to lift 2000# in the loader before the rear tires lift off the ground. Well....1000# counterweight + 2000# load + weight of the tractor is now ALL on the front tires. So by adding a insufficient counterweight, you just added another ton to the front axle in a heavy lift.

So, not only do you need enough to keep the back tires on the ground, but you need to take weight off the front tires too.

I have a barrel filled with concrete to the 50 gal mark (~1000#), and I in certain cases, I can still lift a rear tire. And my loader is only rated for 1100#. Your bigger tractor with longer wheelbase helps, but I still say you need 2k back there if you are gonna be trying to move 2500# longs around.

For reference, 2000# would be a box with ~13 cubic feet. I'd build a box, about 25" x 25" by 36" tall.
Standard cat 1 lowers spacing is 26", so 25" block is about perfect. (if you use a QH, make it fit). And you are gonna want the pins really close to the forward edge rather in the middle of the 25" depth. otherwise the curvature of the lower arms wont allow you to hook up.

 

[Bull Of The Woods]

Thanks to everyone for the help. I'll scratch my head on this one, as I said earlier lifting to the max is not something I would be doing on a regular basis, nor is it my goal to see how much I can lift. But I have to factor in what I might be lifting as well as my safety and not do any damage to my new unit.

 

[chris1006]

Just built mine out of 55 gallon plastic drum. Took 16-60lb. bags. Added some pipe for shovels, rakes, etc. Also added two eye bolts for lifting other than 3 point hitch. I have the XR4046H and it made the tractor a lot more stable. I did not fill my tires because I do use it in my yard a lot and just do not want any issues with rims later in life. I did not want to spend a lot of money on implements that had enough weight to make it worth while but did not need so I made this for under 100.00. Hopefully the picture comes thru.

 

[chris1006]

Also remember that while filling the tires does help with stability of the tractor, it really does not do much for actually helping "unload" the front axle very much. I think the perfect world would be tires filled and counter weight.