How much ballast do you need?

[Shawn T. W.]

How much ballast does your tractor NEED?

What kind of ballast does your tractor NEED?

This is aimed at what I feel is what most of our members have for tractors, mostly under 80 HP … once you get into a couple hundred horses and 15,000 plus pounds, I'm sure it's different …

Ballast is to make your tractor more stable, and to hopefully allow you to never tip your tractor over, plus a balanced tractor will not cause it to wear out or break stuff prematurely.

There are basically three kinds of ballast …
Front Ballast.
Tire/Wheel Ballast.
Rear Ballast.

They all will almost always lower the center of gravity …

Front ballast is primarily used when lifting something heavy on the back, or pulling hard on something in the ground, like a bottom plow in a dirt field.

Here you can see that I added rocks to the bucket as front ballast to offset the heavy and long brush hog as I creep back into the creek bed, and want the front chained tires to pull me back up!

Tire/Wheel Ballast is primarily for TRACTION. (Sometimes confused with “rear ballast”)

Here I've added 275 Lbs of steel weight lifting plates to the BH frame to give me TRACTION ballast to assist the filled tires and steel wheel weights, while pulling a full load of dirt with the rear blade, since the weight of the blade is on the ground, it does help traction, since it's angled, it will try to push a light rear end sideways ... Not now!

Rear Ballast is primarily used when lifting something heavy on the front of the tractor to counter balance the load and keep the tractor stable.

Here is my rear ballast box, to counter balance the weight of the front tote, but also acts as a trailer hitch for the trailer with the rear tote!

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding on rear ballast and why it's important, and what I'm addressing in this thread …
Unfortunately most tractor dealers do not even mention this topic, and lots of “Internet myths” floating around too, it seems many unknowingly embrace liquid filled tires, but refuse to add weight to the three point hitch … ?

Remember usually weight is a tractor's best friend!

Four years ago I was a new tractor owner/operator … I had run a tractor a few times in the past, way back, but didn't really know very much … I bought a tiny little Sub-Compact Utility Tractor (SCUT) Tractor Loader Backhoe (TLB) a Massey Ferguson GC 1725 MB, as I needed a backhoe (BH) for my new to me property, (couldn't get a contractor to even return my calls!) and back in 2022 there weren't many options due to supply chain issues, I was really looking for something much bigger … but ended up with this tiny little overgrown lawnmower! I got the three manuals for it, and read every word, I like to read and I thought I understood what I was supposed to do to operate it … and I got a lot of work done with it … unfortunately the manual is/was not very clear on HOW MUCH rear ballast was needed for operation!

This is all my manual says … huh??? How in the world am I to figure that out? (There is a member here that posted a picture of there manual which had a way with measuring things to figure it out, but I don't remember who it was, I think tractor and member are from Europe?)

For example when I took off the BH (651 Lbs) to put on the rototiller … I thought that was fine, as I had an attachment on the back … rototiller weighs 351 Lbs plus the 69 Lb quick hitch … how much do you think this load of rocks that I hand filled the bucket with that I “harvested” out of my “garden” weighs?

Sometimes I used my land plane (285 Lbs), but added a couple of hardwood timbers, a steel I-beam and a couple of cement blocks… was it enough? No way! (Now I know!)

At 347 hours I had to replace my front R4 tires, as the sidewalls were getting “cut” or maybe just failing? I have lots of rocky ground where I live, and I had filled the front tires with windshield washer fluid, so the leaks were obvious!

I decided to replace the 4 ply rated tires with 8 ply, as even with the tractor manual saying to inflate to 22 PSI, and the tire sidewall said the same, the poor little tires would “squat” under a full load at 22 PSI, sometimes it looked like the rim was almost on the ground! I figured if the hydraulics would lift it, it was “OK”! I ran the 8 ply’s at 35 PSI, sidewall said Max at 44 PSI!

By adding on the Bxpanded Piranha Tooth Bar, it expanded the volume capacity of the bucket, and I wasn't bashful about filling it until it spilled over the edges! That's a heavy load, but the tires aren't squatting anymore!

At just under the two year (bumper to bumper warranty) warranty was up, I had 385 hours on it … definitely “hard” hours … I took it in to the dealership for some recently acquired front axle leaks, both sides were leaking and so was the middle pivot! They fixed it all at no charge, but didn't ask me anything about it, or tell me to put more weight on the back …

But … I like to read … I was reading over at another tractor forum where @kennyd started a thread on ballast … I read it, and said “Ah HA! That's why I was leaking!” I broke my tractor from not operating it properly! Duh!!!

So I went about to build a multi-purpose ballast box that I could use with the loader when I didn't have the backhoe on, and didn't want the 8’+ long brush hog “in the way”, while the 5’ wide brush hog only weighed 518 Lbs, it had more effect than the BH, as it hung out so far from the rear axle, I actually needed ballast in the bucket up front when I mowed with it, as when the tail wheel would come off the ground, the steering was a bit too “light”!!! So there isn't a “magic number” for rear ballast, it depends on how much weight, how far from the rear axle, and how much you are lifting on the front!

Here's a few questions that may not have a real answer, but makes me wonder, did overloading the front axle cause my fluid to get “dirtier”? … the owners manual says to change the front axle fluid (hydraulic fluid) “every 2 years, or 500 hours” … I drained it at only 1 year and 244 hours, it looked like this!

I showed my dealer that picture, he said it looked “normal” !!!

Since my 8 ply tires don't squat like the old ones do, did that help wear out the seals, as there was no give in the tires? I've since reduced the front tires PSI to 20, and they still don't squat under a full load. (But I have more weight on the back now too!)

Here are a couple of videos with scales to show how ballast affects the tractor in different scenarios … scales don't have opinions!

Proves tire/wheel ballast doesn't relieve the front axle of ANY WEIGHT!

Shows how the typical advice of people that say “put as much on the back, as on the front” is still unbalanced … I would have liked to see how much adding another 10 bags on the back made the front lighter … and if he stated what the front axle was rated for.

I'm mostly trying to help new members who know next to nothing about tractors, and those that have been misled by the omission of information from dealers which have led to some myths … such as “if the rear tires don't leave the ground, it's enough”! Which is false.

I could have easily said to anybody that would listen … “Don't buy a Massey Ferguson, they are junk, I lost the front end out of it in less than two years, the seals were leaking and the oil was trashed!” When really it was ignorance on my part, and lack of usable communication in the manual! Nothing to do with the quality of the tractor!

It really doesn't matter what color paint, or what lettering is on the hood, ALL tractors with loaders need to be balanced!

 

[WranglerX]

I have a MF GC1715 and yes it is a sub compact..... When I am doing FEL work no matter what it is I run an approximate 600lb ballast (counter weight).... Its a steel box 2 x 2 x 1 ft (4 cubic feet) and filled with concrete, and concrete weighs in at approximately 150 pounds per cubic foot...

And wheel weights or fluids only help traction as rear axle is actually pivot point for counterbalance...

Another thing for stabilit is adding wheel spacer, I have added 3 inch spacers on my GC and it make a world of difference on the hilly terrain of my property....

NO picture in not photoshopped and the "runs like a dead Deere weighs in at about 520 pound according to its manual....

 

[RayIN]

FWIW, I have my rear 8ply F1 tires pressure @ 12psi and they still don't have much of a sidewall bulge at the bottom when my 6' King Kutter is attached. Originally I had pressure @ 18, but had poor traction and lowered them to 12.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

When I am doing FEL work no matter what it is I run an approximate 600lb ballast (counter weight).... Its a steel box 2 x 2 x 1 ft (4 cubic feet) and filled with concrete, and concrete weighs in at approximately 150 pounds per cubic foot...

And how much does the steel box weigh before you put in the concrete?

I also run 3" spacers on the back ...

I run my rear R4 4 ply tires on this SCUT at 10 PSI ... no bulge ... Tires are filled 75% full with windshield washer fluid, and steel weights are 70 Lbs each.

But ... If I add some weight farther back, they do squat a bit ... That rock is roughly 16" X 36" ...

I run 8 PSI in my 8 ply R1's on the back here, front 6 ply R1's at 20 psi ... Once I fill that tote with water I'll probably need to add weight to the front.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

I tried to look up the Kubota L2502 axle specs in that second video I posted back in the OP, I couldn't find the newer L2502 tractor that he is using, but the axles have to be very similar to the L2501 … note that Kubota numbers there loaders in lift capacity in Kilograms (Kg) … there are roughly 2.2 Lbs in 1 Kg … he has the LA 526 so it should be able to lift 1158 Lbs … making some educated/experienced “guess’s” on my part … let's say the concrete weighs 625 Lbs, the Pallets weighs 50 Lbs, and the forks weigh 300 Lbs … so he is picking up 975 Lbs about three quarters the lift capacity of the loader …

The Kubota L2501 brochure states …

The front axle is only rated for 2864 Lbs?

And here is a screenshot from that video with the end weights for the different senecios ... So with just the empty forks on, and the empty rear carryall the front axle is already overloaded! Can that be right???

Nevertheless ... Without anything other than the empty carryall on the back, the 975 load up front is going to ruin that front axle!!!

Here are a few pages from Kubota's loader manual … notice it says that BOTH tire/wheel weight AND rear ballast is REQUIRED for fel work …

Which is the exact same model the video guy had, he had a LA 526, this covers the LA 514, 724, and 854 ... Should still be close ...

They give a few examples of weight of rear attachments … notice how much the bh weighs!

Notice how all the pictures show using rear ballast with the loader ...

Which leads me to my next conclusion … if a bh is an option for a fel tractor, that is a good point to aim for … while it's possible to add weight to a bh, it's not always convenient … but the manufacturer has to realize that the TLB will be used with the fel, and has accounted for enough weight on the back for a proper and safe counte
r balance.

 

[WranglerX]

And how much does the steel box weigh before you put in the concrete?

Good question walls are thin steel and frame was angler iron bed rails.... Maybe 75 -100 pounds.... Does not really matter as it works as I want it to....

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Does not really matter as it works as I want it to....

Yes, I think it does matter ... As others with a similar sized tractor, would want to know that information, as they are contemplating how much weight they should have for rear ballast ... Knowing what works for someone else I think is important. Your 675 - 700 Lbs seems to be a good weight.

In another thread a brand new owner of a GC1.25 had asked Google AI how much weight he should have, it's answer was "450 - 600" to which I responded that 600 Lbs should work OK. (Now I know I was a tad low, but also suggested to not fill it all the way, and be able to maybe add blocks to get it up to full weight ...)

Since I don't have a purchased, premade ballast box, or similar design, I only had to guess, as mine doesn't look like a normal ballast box, mine has recessed pins, and is wider than the lower arms ... Here you can see the pipe I used for the lower "pins" ... After the concrete was poured and set, I knocked out the 2 - 2X4's on each side (purple X's) that were bracing the form ...

Here you can see how the quick hitch is recessed into the ballast box, and how much wider it is than the lower arms, which keeps the weight close to the tractor, not like a typical ballast box one might buy.

 

[Rvrrat14]

I have read “Use enough ballast for the load you’re lifting”.

Yanmar states 1455 lbs recommended. Period.

It seems the manufacturers would ALL list GAWR’s. Then we don’t have to guess as much. Also, seems like the manufacturer would have the weight of an unladen tractor/loader/bucket on all four tires. That video from Tim is a prime example.
Yanmar states tire pressure sets axle weight max. My fronts are 3550 psi each and rears are 4410 psi each.
I have found numerous articles online and tend to read the one’s from agriculture establishments/universities. 2WD vs 4WD makes a difference.
My heaviest loads are usually a bucket full of material. A full/average bucket of dirt I estimate around 800-1000 lbs. My ballast is a box blade at 800 lbs.
Just last week, due to all the press on axle failures, I re-tested my setup.
With a full bucket and the box blade on the rear, tires properly aired, i can lift the load to max height with no bulging of tires noticed as well as stability in the tractor. Always have bucket low to ground when moving. Take your time.

 

[HawkinsHollow]

Very early on I made a 55 gallon bucket filled with concrete as a ballast for my tractor. I estimate it's weight somewhere in the 1200 lb range. I think it is just bout perfect for my 30 hp tractor. I have been able to lift some heavy loads with ol' Bobby Branson!

 

[bigtiller]

My 2000 pound 2720 works well with a 600 pound ballast box filled with concrete to balance out my front 2 stage snowblower.

But when I have heavy work with the loader or pallet forks, 900 + pounds is great.

I try to match the job to the weight by hanging suitcase weights on/in the ballast box.

My 3039 doesn't need ballast. all it does is blow snow and mow with a RFM.

 

[Jaygyver]

The good of liquid ballast is it's neutral axle weight, it's unsprung weight and doesn't effect the axle -capacity-. Technically it can be added to the tire weight capacity but the liquid in the tire absorbs the impacts radially so no one point takes the brunt of it.
If you have -axle weights- then that is added to the axle capacity.

I would love to have either but I would sink to my axle in the spring or late fall in some areas of the property.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Here is a good example of "not enough ballast"!

It's the opposite of what most people with a loader experience, as I was short on FRONT ballast! Each front tire has 75 Lbs of liquid in them, since this I added another 25 Lbs to each tire ...

You can see I also made a provision to be able to add my steel weight lifting plates to it, but wanted to see how it would work without ... I'm in The "Show - Me" State!

It has a quick hitch on the back which weighs 72.4 Lbs, then a set 3pt forks which weigh 487.4 Lbs, and a 134 Lb 275 gallon tote, full of water which is another 2200 Lbs ... So 2893.8 Lbs!

The tractor is rated for 3860 Lbs lift "at the pins" on the three point, and 2980 Lbs "24 behind" the pins" ... Notice the square at the purple arrow, that is the "pin" that hooks the quick hitch to the lower arm, and about a foot forward of where the water starts! So this is pretty much a "full load"!

So I went up to the barn and loaded up the weight plates ... Still not enough with 275 Lbs on the front!

While I was draining some water out ... I decided to "experiment" I climbed onto the front brush guard, and my 195 Lbs brought the front tires back to the ground, I got off and continued to drain until the front tires were on the ground ...

I then tilted the tank forward to bring more water, closer to the pins, and was just barely able to steer!

But ... I had to cross the creek, and as I was pulling up the other side, the tote was leveling out, water had shifted farther back, and I did a wheelie!

So I stopped, and drained out more water ... Until the front tires were back on the ground!

Here is a short 24 second video of it "coming back to earth"!

Not enough Ballast!

After draining it down, it finally was able to handle 175 gallons ... I added another 25 Lbs to each front tire since, and will be shopping for another 200 Lbs of steel weight lifting plates ... And probably try only 250 gallons of water ...

 

[sandman2234]

I haven't read this whole post, will come back to it!
My Kubota and John Deere are basically the same tractors in HP ratings, although the JD had a pump/injector change which pushed it up a few HP.
The Kubota had filled rear tires, and I have to have an implement on the rear of it to keep the rear wheels on the ground when using the FEL. The JD has never had anything hooked to the 3pt since I owned it, although I am considering hooking the landplane to it. The rear tires are foam filled on the JD which gives the tractor enough ballast that the FEL doesn't lift them off the ground, doesn't even come close.
The previous owner told me those rear tires weighed around 3500 pounds each. Might have been a guess, or he might have known. However, despite cuts, holes and other interesting things that would put a liquid filled tire down for a tire repair, these just keep going!
David from jax

 

[sandman2234]

I agree with Shawn T W that weight is needed to make a tractor do what we need it to do, and do it safely.
One thing I want to mention, especially after the video by ITC who stated adding wheel weight to rear axle would not remove weight from front axle. While that is technically correct, it is very misleading! Adding liquid to the rear tire doesn't remove any weight from the front axle like adding a rear 3pt ballast will. However, adding wheel weights or liquid ballast to the tires does not increase the weight that is supported by the axles or the "frame" of the tractor. The "frame" of a tractor is the engine, bell housing and transmission which are held together by bolts. Put xxx weight in the bucket and xxx on counterweight and you have added a lot of stress to those bolts and driveline parts. Adding wheel weights and liquid ballast to the tires does not add stress to those parts beyond the capacity of the FEL.
Adding spacers to the wheels is great for adding stability on uneven ground but combine added stress of 3pt weight and increased FEL capacity and you are starting to approach the limits of the fasteners that hold the wheels on and the parts together.
My point here, is be careful with this new improved capacity when you add weight, and try to add un-slung weight instead of weight that is carried by the frame of the tractor. I have seen way too many broken bellhousings, stripped bolt holes in engines and broken axles or sheared wheel lugs.
Don't get me wrong, I will push a FEL to its hydraulic limits, as the attachment shows with a 3970 pound lawnmower being transported by my JD2555. While it was really close to hydraulic limits, the rear end was not in the least bit "light", even with no attachment on the rear. It is all about un-slung ballast.
Getting off my bandwagon,
David from jax