How is this not robbery?

[J_J]

You get an estimate to do a job, and the labor is, say $45 per hour, and maybe the mechanic gets $18 per hour . They say that the time to install a wiper motor is three hours.

Now you watch them install the motor in one hour, and watch them work on others vehicles during your so called time.

The mechanic gets $18 per hour, and the business get the rest. Now, lets say that the mechanic installs 7 motors in an 8 hour day, one hr for lunch. 7 hours and charging 7 customers another 14 hours for work not done.

So, what that means is that the mechanic gets $18 per hour, times 7=$126 per day.and the business gets $117 per hour times 3 for the three hrs charged to do the job, and 7 times that for the day. .

Customer brings in his new motor.

So, for installing 7 wiper motors at 1 hr each, and charging customers 3 hr labor, the mechanic gets $126 per day, and the business gets $819.

I don't even want to hear about the mechanic that can beat the book time and therefore lie to the customer that he worked the full three hrs on his car. What else can it be called except theft by deception. He quoted you a time to do the job, but did not give you honest work time.

I never have liked those times to repair, they always seem to allow to much time.

If you hired someone to dig a ditch that should only take 1 hour, would you pay him for the 3 hours it took him to actually dig the ditch.

You have to consider this, or maybe not, was the book time for labor based on the dumbest low rent individual in the test group, or was it designed to take people hard earned money.

The time not worked on your machine is pure profit.

I also don't see where I should have to pay for all the little extras added to the cost either. Rags, lubricants, solvents, rubber gloves, safety shoes, etc. The labor per hour should cover everything. Business expense is just that. I will bet that they claim the expense on their income tax as an expense, although they have been compensated by the customer.

You don't even have to agree, it is a fact that has been proven.

 

[brin]

JJ - I agree with you ...it is theft by deception..no doubt about it. I cringe anytime I have to take one of our cars to a dealer...I have no faith any dealer will tell me the truth ..Remember the old days when the mechanic would give you the old part...notice they do not do that anymore...I always ask for my old part up front and if they object I go somewhere else.

 

[bcp]

And, having to buy new parts + labor that you didn't need because they misdiagnosed the problem.

Bruce

 

[massey990]

I never have liked those times to repair, they always seem to allow to much time.

I agree but even professional mechanics break off bolts etc. which can add time to the job that they can't itemize on the bill.

 

[Duffster]

You get an estimate to do a job, and the labor is, say $45 per hour, and maybe the mechanic gets $18 per hour . They say that the time to install a wiper motor is three hours.

Now you watch them install the motor in one hour, and watch them work on others vehicles during your so called time.

The mechanic gets $18 per hour, and the business get the rest. Now, lets say that the mechanic installs 7 motors in an 8 hour day, one hr for lunch. 7 hours and charging 7 customers another 14 hours for work not done.

So, what that means is that the mechanic gets $18 per hour, times 7=$126 per day.and the business gets $117 per hour times 3 for the three hrs charged to do the job, and 7 times that for the day. .

Customer brings in his new motor.

So, for installing 7 wiper motors at 1 hr each, and charging customers 3 hr labor, the mechanic gets $126 per day, and the business gets $819.

I don't even want to hear about the mechanic that can beat the book time and therefore lie to the customer that he worked the full three hrs on his car. What else can it be called except theft by deception. He quoted you a time to do the job, but did not give you honest work time.

I never have liked those times to repair, they always seem to allow to much time.

If you hired someone to dig a ditch that should only take 1 hour, would you pay him for the 3 hours it took him to actually dig the ditch.

You have to consider this, or maybe not, was the book time for labor based on the dumbest low rent individual in the test group, or was it designed to take people hard earned money.

The time not worked on your machine is pure profit.

I also don't see where I should have to pay for all the little extras added to the cost either. Rags, lubricants, solvents, rubber gloves, safety shoes, etc. The labor per hour should cover everything.

You don't even have to agree, it is a fact that has been proven.

Better question would be how one could figure it is "robbery"?

What the mechanic is getting paid is irrelevant. Besides maybe he is really good and can make three times flat rate. Nobodies lieing. No theft involved.

If it took him 4 hours you would still hold him to the 3 so where is the gripe?

You agreed to the rate before they started therefore it is fair.

 

[hosspuller]

If you get an estimate for a 2 hour job, but the job takes 2.5 hours. Who pays for the extra 1/2 hour ?

Just asking ...

Now ask me about the environmental charges shops add on. That's like the ADP line item on popular cars ... You ask what's ADP ?? (Additional Dealer Profit) lol

Or Document fees... I pay cash and only want a MSO with the car ... Won't pay hundreds of $$ for standing in line at the DMV

 

[Bird]

IF they quoted 3 hours at $45 an hour or $135 for the job and you agreed to that, then it's not robbery and you should have no complaint if they do the job quicker. On the other hand, if it's a new mechanic or he runs into something unexpected and the job takes 5 hours, I would only expect to pay the original or flat rate amount of $135.

It seems to me that, in your post, you want to penalize a mechanic for being too good at his job. Would you be happier if he slowed down so it actually takes him the 3 hours originally quoted? That way, he makes less and you wait longer for him to get your vehicle back to you.

I'd have to disagree with you. I've had it happen myself where they quote a time and price and then beat that time considerably. And when that happens, I just pay the bill and consider that to be good for both the mechanic and me.

 

[tcreeley]

When I take a vehicle to the dealership, they don't give me a quote for time. They give me an estimate. When it is all done then they add in the time by the book and more if they need to- never less. The parts are always their brand. If their mechanic needs extra time, he won't have his job for too long. A good portion of the money for labor doesn't go to the mechanic. It goes to the dealership for overhead.
The old way it was total hours worked plus parts. This way gives them extra money, like when they figured out how to use compound interest instead of simple interest on loans.

 

[om21braz]

The robbery part also applies when you have several mechanics at a dealership, let's say 6. Five of those six are'nt capable of doing much more than 30k or 60k services and the lone real mechanic gets all the tough jobs. He gets the jobs where maybe there is a wiring short somewhere in the harness that requires far more time to diagnose/find than it does to actually fix or the first attempt at repair on a transmission that nobody there has seen before. I see it as a double-edged blade - you can get cut on either side.

 

[orezok]

What the mechanic is paid is dependent upon the shop. Some pay hourly and some pay flat rate. When I owned my transmission shop, my builder was paid flat rate. That is if he was allotted 5 hours for a build, he got paid for 5 hours. If he built it in 3 he made money, if it took 6 he lost. Most of the time he made money cause he was a good builder. But occasionally on a comeback he had to completely rebuild it again on his own time.

Over the long run, he still did well. Now the pull and put mechanics, they were paid hourly.

 

[TractorTidy]

Even w/ all that said, there is no robbery and it is still DIFFICULT to make money in the shop. Unless you have owned or own a business that has a "repair" shop, you will not understand. Also, $45/ hr. is too low.

Do you think the only expense is the mechanic's wages? Then think again!

 

[om21braz]

When it is all done then they add in the time by the book and more if they need to- never less. The parts are always their brand. If their mechanic needs extra time, he won't have his job for too long. .

As far as paying the mechanic goes, the few that I know that have worked at dealerships note they get paid for book time - regardless of how long it takes. Some jobs they worked 6-8 hours on including diagnosing the problem and got paid for say, 3.2 hours. Book time is scaled down to the tenth of a hour and no time is included for diagnosis. If you've seen/been a mechanic deal/dealing with newer car electrical problems firsthand, you'll see why time spent finding the problem is a very big deal.

 

[TractorTidy]

Even w/ all that said, there is no robbery and it is still DIFFICULT to make money in the shop. Unless you have owned or own a business that has a "repair" shop, you will not understand. Also, $45/ hr. is too low.

Do you think the only expense is the mechanic's wages? Then think again!

 

[Stihlrunner]

Ok the mechanic is paid $18 hr. If you are a decent shop you have:

-production bonus to pay
-employee health insurance
-liability insurance
-property insurance
-utlities
-state of the art equipment
-software and manuals...Alldata can cost over $300 per mos for subscription!
-uniforms
-warranty fees, delivery fees, waste disposal that is not passed onto consumer
-rent
-advertising
-owners salary, clerical staff, etc.

That is just to list a few! The cost of doing anything now days is going up, up, up! Whether or not you like a flat rate system is moot. Would you feel better if they job was going to cost you $XXX rather then telling you it will take 6 hrs and they do it in 4? It really doesn't matter how you break down the time.

The onus is on you to shop around. Believe me a reliable, credible shop is worth paying more money to have it done right the first time!

 

[Dutch445]

Believe me a reliable, credible shop is worth paying more money to have it done right the first time!

Same holds true for a decent mechanic, a good, one and done,
credible wrench with few or no rework is worth a lot more than one
that is either doing a lot of rework, or they decide to have another tech do
the rework. (very costly)

the problem lies in the "pay" rate mgmt may not want to pay for that
type of tech, and therefore the revolving door just keeps turning.

but if a guy gets the job done right the first time, all the time, he is
more valuable than mgmt realizes, esp since he will probably diagnose
properly the first time also.

 

[keyman1808]

Ok the mechanic is paid $18 hr. If you are a decent shop you have:

-production bonus to pay
-employee health insurance
-liability insurance
-property insurance
-utlities
-state of the art equipment
-software and manuals...Alldata can cost over $300 per mos for subscription!
-uniforms
-warranty fees, delivery fees, waste disposal that is not passed onto consumer
-rent
-advertising
-owners salary, clerical staff, etc.

That is just to list a few! The cost of doing anything now days is going up, up, up! Whether or not you like a flat rate system is moot. Would you feel better if they job was going to cost you $XXX rather then telling you it will take 6 hrs and they do it in 4? It really doesn't matter how you break down the time.

The onus is on you to shop around. Believe me a reliable, credible shop is worth paying more money to have it done right the first time!

Very good point most people don't factor these costs in. I have a small service company and I quote by the job. If I get the job done quickly good for me I make more but when it takes double the amount of tiime then I loose. But all those cost mentioned above are real and need to be addressed. If all you were doing is paying the mechanic then yes its outrageous but the guy who schedules the appointments and the parts guys that order and put the parts away get paid too. I feel most would complain if you walked into the dealership to schedule an appointment and before anything is even done the guy at the counter asks you for 20 dollars for his time most people would be ripped. But thats why the labor rates are high

What can irk me is when I walk into my local Kubota dealer to get a part and he needs to order it. Its not a rush or anything like that and it arrives two weeks later and he charges me 30.00 for shipping to his shop. I paid full retail for my parts and I feel that it w=should be included in that. Now if it were a rush order then I can see paying the shipping. So now when I need parts I will order form dealers that are online (ex Barlows or Messicks) because if I am going to pay shipping at least it will come right to my door

 

[MoKelly]

I also don't see where I should have to pay for all the little extras added to the cost either. Rags, lubricants, solvents, rubber gloves, safety shoes, etc. The labor per hour should cover everything. Business expense is just that. I will bet that they claim the expense on their income tax as an expense, although they have been compensated by the customer.

They most certainly will deduct the cost of these supplies on the tax return since they will also include the money paid by the customer as revenue on the tax return. Its the way it has to be done ... no netting in taxes.

Sounds like you had a bad day.

MoKelly

 

[Bird]

When I take a vehicle to the dealership, they don't give me a quote for time. They give me an estimate. When it is all done then they add in the time by the book and more if they need to- never less.

Now that would annory me, and was so common at one time that Dallas, TX, passed an ordinance many, many years ago that an auto repair facility must give you a written estimate if you request one. And the final bill can be no more than 10% above the estimate unless the shop contacts you and you agree to the additional charges or work before the work is done.

Even that is too liberal to suit me. I used to do the estimates for auto repairs in a shop and when I was in the air tool repair business, some customers wanted an estimate first, and I was happy to oblige. However, we might have called it an "estimate", and the final bill might be less than my estimate, but it was never a penny more than the estimate. I'd rather lose money on a job than charge someone more than I told them it would be in advance.

 

[MMagis]

If they quote you a price and you agree to it, that’s it. End of story. Who cares if it takes less time? If it takes 6 hours, are you going to volunteer to pay extra? We all know the answer to that. They have to pad quotes because they’re going to make money on some jobs, but they’re going to lose on others. I have no idea why the mechanics may is even mentioned because it’s not relevant. It takes more than wages to run a business. I suspect this is why so many small businesses fail so quickly, most people have no understanding of how to run a business and actually make money. They just think they do.

 

[wrenchturner]

To the original poster. Why did you just not put the windshield wiper motor on yourself? Had you done so then you probably would not complain. And we wonder why a good mechanic is hard to find. Have you been to a restaurant lately? My guess is yes. I bet you paid $1.25 or more for that tea that cost only .15 or less to make. Did you complain? Probably not.

I know a man that just closed his auto repair shop because after paying for overhead including medical insurance it was just not economically feasible to stay in business. Maybe he had too many customers like you.