Hot water recirculating pump

[reb]

The master bedroom in my house is about 30 feet from the water heater. About 16 years ago I put a recirculating pump under the counter to avoid waiting for hot water from the faucet. The pump has a timer and a thermostatic shut off. It finally quit and I am looking for a replacement. There is no practical way to put a pump at the water heater tank--no 110v outlet. For our lifestyle a simple pump with a thermostatic shut off and an on/off switch is quite satisfactory.

The choices I have found range from a couple hundred dollars to 4 or 5 hundred. I am less concerned about price than long term reliability. Has anyone here any experience? TIA

 

[hawkeye08]

I don't have one but a friend told me to look at the ones from chillipepper. I looked at the reviews on Amazon for them, not good. One of the reviews mentions Taco Genie. perhaps that is worth looking at..?

 

[aeblank]

IMO, hard to beat grundfos.
That said, Menards has one that's probably plenty fine.

 

[dickfoster]

The master bedroom in my house is about 30 feet from the water heater. About 16 years ago I put a recirculating pump under the counter to avoid waiting for hot water from the faucet. The pump has a timer and a thermostatic shut off. It finally quit and I am looking for a replacement. There is no practical way to put a pump at the water heater tank--no 110v outlet. For our lifestyle a simple pump with a thermostatic shut off and an on/off switch is quite satisfactory.

The choices I have found range from a couple hundred dollars to 4 or 5 hundred. I am less concerned about price than long term reliability. Has anyone here any experience? TIA

Depending on your layout you might be able to rig up a convection loop and eliminate the pump altogether. The previous owner of my place had a pump plumbed in with a return loop, then the pump quit and he found out none was needed as convection alone was doing just fine without it.

 

[crackerjack222]

My radiant heat system uses Taco circulation pumps.
Taco Comfort Solutions: Water Circulation Pumps & Circulators

I have heard good things about Grundfos, but never used one and suspect the price is^^^^

 

[reb]

Thanks for the responses.

I looked at the Chillipepper unit. It is probably the least expensive one I found, but I doubt the long term reliability.

Grundfos is a respected name, but their only product that looks like it might work has poor reviews on Amazon and it is intended for use with a dedicated return line. That would require a major rework of my plumbing.

The unit that Menards has is a Laing. It looks like a possibility. Menards is offering it for less than anyone else I found. Amazon reviews give me some concerns regarding customer service and reliability, tho.

A convection loop would be great, but that would require the water heater to be installed at a lower level than the sinks and a dedicated return line. My place is a single level and the recirculating pump was added as an afterthought, so that won't work here.

The Taco Genie appears to be the most robust of those I have seen. Installation would be a bit more complex than the Laing, but it appears to be a better unit. The choices seem to be narrowed to the Taco Genie and the Laing at Menards.

Some of the reviews on Amazon mention problems with single handle faucets and recirculating pumps. All my faucets are single handle and everything seems to have worked well for 16 years. The brand of pump I have is apparently no longer available. I hope the new ones work as well.

 

[aircommuter]

I use Grundfos, have for years, today, I get them from supply house dot com. I also have their constant-flow well pump. It works great with low power cost also.

 

[bigtiller]

This Old House, shown on public television, had a pump that fit under the bathroom sink and was activated by hand using a 16 volt push button switch, just like a doorbell. The switch was mounted on the face frame of the cabinet and easy to reach but out of sight.

I have been unable to find a plumber that knows anything about this type of on-demand system.

 

[reb]

Thanks. I looked at that site. They list a large selection on circulating pumps. I saw nothing that looked exactly like what I am looking for, but there are some possibilities that could be adapted for my use.

 

[reb]

This Old House, shown on public television, had a pump that fit under the bathroom sink and was activated by hand using a 16 volt push button switch, just like a doorbell. The switch was mounted on the face frame of the cabinet and easy to reach but out of sight.

I have been unable to find a plumber that knows anything about this type of on-demand system.

The Taco Model # 006-CT-USK works as you describe. There is also a version that uses a remote control to operate the pump.

 

[dickfoster]

Thanks for the responses.

I looked at the Chillipepper unit. It is probably the least expensive one I found, but I doubt the long term reliability.

Grundfos is a respected name, but their only product that looks like it might work has poor reviews on Amazon and it is intended for use with a dedicated return line. That would require a major rework of my plumbing.

The unit that Menards has is a Laing. It looks like a possibility. Menards is offering it for less than anyone else I found. Amazon reviews give me some concerns regarding customer service and reliability, tho.

A convection loop would be great, but that would require the water heater to be installed at a lower level than the sinks and a dedicated return line. My place is a single level and the recirculating pump was added as an afterthought, so that won't work here.

The Taco Genie appears to be the most robust of those I have seen. Installation would be a bit more complex than the Laing, but it appears to be a better unit. The choices seem to be narrowed to the Taco Genie and the Laing at Menards.

Some of the reviews on Amazon mention problems with single handle faucets and recirculating pumps. All my faucets are single handle and everything seems to have worked well for 16 years. The brand of pump I have is apparently no longer available. I hope the new ones work as well.

Well you must have a return line of some sort or a pump wouldn't work either. Yeah having the water heater on a lower level is what makes it work I guess but I imagine you'd get some convection from the tank in the water heater alone. Try plumbing the return line to the tank drain and see what happens.

It's like the old coal fired boilers and radiator heating systems, they all used convection to circulate the hot water. There were no pumps or even the electricity to run them back then.

 

[reb]

Well you must have a return line of some sort or a pump wouldn't work either...

The kind I have uses the cold water line for the return. That makes for simple retrofit with standard plumbing. The downside is that the cold water line gives warm water for a short while after the pump has run.

 

[dickfoster]

The kind I have uses the cold water line for the return. That makes for simple retrofit with standard plumbing. The downside is that the cold water line gives warm water for a short while after the pump has run.

Oh I see. I guess that would work but I didn't think of it.

 

[teejk]

Well you must have a return line of some sort or a pump wouldn't work either. Yeah having the water heater on a lower level is what makes it work I guess but I imagine you'd get some convection from the tank in the water heater alone. Try plumbing the return line to the tank drain and see what happens.

It's like the old coal fired boilers and radiator heating systems, they all used convection to circulate the hot water. There were no pumps or even the electricity to run them back then.

I think the idea is to have "instant on" hot water to remote locations. When we designed this house we purposely planned to have the mechanicals under the baths but that left the kitchen/laundry far far away. Laundry not really a problem since most of our stuff rarely gets a hot water wash. Most dishwashers now will have their own heating element. Kitchen sink takes awhile to get hot but I don't think the water heater runs as much as it would if I ran a circ pump. Series of trade offs I guess. My plumber/HVAC friend is becoming a big fan of the tankless boiler units now (we have a big expensive Weil McLain to run our in-floor heat...way oversized and would actually provide DHW if we wanted it to but it doesn't). He is now recommending the small Weils. I know that the tankless have had serious shortcomings in keeping up with demand especially in high demand applications like master baths but I think they are improving.

 

[Loadstar]

I think the idea is to have "instant on" hot water to remote locations. When we designed this house we purposely planned to have the mechanicals under the baths but that left the kitchen/laundry far far away. Laundry not really a problem since most of our stuff rarely gets a hot water wash. Most dishwashers now will have their own heating element. Kitchen sink takes awhile to get hot but I don't think the water heater runs as much as it would if I ran a circ pump. Series of trade offs I guess. My plumber/HVAC friend is becoming a big fan of the tankless boiler units now (we have a big expensive Weil McLain to run our in-floor heat...way oversized and would actually provide DHW if we wanted it to but it doesn't). He is now recommending the small Weils. I know that the tankless have had serious shortcomings in keeping up with demand especially in high demand applications like master baths but I think they are improving.

I don't think tankless have had shortcomings keeping up. If anything I would say it was sized too small or not plumbed correctly. I have seen tankless used for primary heat on 50ton rooftops all the way to taking care of large industrial restrooms with twenty showers.

 

[teejk]

I don't think tankless have had shortcomings keeping up. If anything I would say it was sized too small or not plumbed correctly. I have seen tankless used for primary heat on 50ton rooftops all the way to taking care of large industrial restrooms with twenty showers.

I think the concept came from Europe...when we lived in Switzerland years ago the shower head was pretty close to what we Americans use as our kitchen sink sprayers. No way the early versions could accommodate our 8 head body showers. The technology is getting better every day. But like I said..."trade-offs"...spend $$$ for "instant heat" or let the primary source provide it in a few minutes. Depends on how much time you have I guess.

 

[dstig1]

Taco or Grundfos are the big names, and you really can't go wrong there. Supplyhouse.com is also a great resource. Fast cheap shipping and they are great on support. I have used them a ton. There is rarely a drop-in replacement for stuff like this, as they last so long that by the time you need to replace them, those old standards are long gone, and we are on to something new (hopefully better, from what they have learned...)