Homemade, prefab, concrete and pine post

[rbstern]

Prefab pole barn posts with a concrete base seem to be gaining in popularity (see image below for reference).

With building material so scarce and prices so high right now, I've delayed my pole barn build. It's not a must have, so it can wait. But I'm also thinking I could use the delay time productively, and cut my own posts on my saw mill. The issue for use in a build, obviously: Not treated lumber.

I was thinking of cutting 6" true posts, drilling the base of the pine vertically for a piece of 1/2" x 4' rebar, leaving 3' of the rebar exposed. Then, I would attach a concrete pouring form, 6"x6"x42", to the bottom of the post and pour in standard, 4000psi Quikcreate or Sakcrete. The rebar would be center-suspended in that mix and provide both lateral and vertical adhesion between the concrete and the post, and keep the pine off the ground when placed in the post hole.

Thoughts? Any reason that can't work?

 

[cqaigy2]

What is your thought with the rebar?

What is it's purpose?

 

[MossRoad]

Why not just use something like this sturdi wall plus?

 

[MossRoad]

...

I was thinking of cutting 6" true posts, drilling the base of the pine vertically for a piece of 1/2" x 4' rebar, leaving 3' of the rebar exposed. Then, I would attach a concrete pouring form, 6"x6"x42", to the bottom of the post and pour in standard, 4000psi Quikcreate or Sakcrete. The rebar would be center-suspended in that mix and provide both lateral and vertical adhesion between the concrete and the post, and keep the pine off the ground when placed in the post hole.

Thoughts? Any reason that can't work?

How would that provide any vertical adhesion? It would keep the post form sliding horizontally, but what would keep it from lifting off the rebar?

 

[rbstern]

What is your thought with the rebar?

What is it's purpose?

Threefold:

Resist lateral loads
Resist vertical loads (the rebar is hammered in snugly, with some construction adhesive in the hole)
Reinforce the concrete

 

[rbstern]

Why not just use something like this sturdi wall plus?

View attachment 702149

Budget build.

For the price of one of those, I'm 85% of the way to a 16' 6x6 PT post, or halfway to the cost of a 20' 6x6 PT post, which I can use in a traditional, in-ground install, and the barn will likely last longer than I will.

I do love the looks of those, though.

 

[rbstern]

How would that provide any vertical adhesion? It would keep the post form sliding horizontally, but what would keep it from lifting off the rebar?

If you've ever hammered 1/2" rebar into a 1/2" hole (with a sledgehammer)...it takes a lot of force to drive in. Would also add adhesive to the hole.

 

[MossRoad]

Threefold:

Resist lateral loads
Resist vertical loads (the rebar is hammered in snugly, with some construction adhesive in the hole)
Reinforce the concrete

I'd be very surprised if rebar pounded into a wooden hole with adhesive were an accepted practice by code because the load pulls with the grain, not across it like bolts through brackets. Think about it. If you drive a nail into end grain, it is very easy to remove. If you drive it across the grain, it is less easy to remove. Maybe it's acceptable? I do not know. I think I'd use the brackets. They add more strength.

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[MossRoad]

Budget build.

For the price of one of those, I'm 85% of the way to a 16' 6x6 PT post, or halfway to the cost of a 20' 6x6 PT post, which I can use in a traditional, in-ground install, and the barn will likely last longer than I will.

I do love the looks of those, though.

Budget build still requires sound practices.

I built a 24 x 24 garage addition last summer. After getting quotes for $6K on concrete I did it myself for half. Lumber, siding, roofing, fasteners etc., were $5K and I did all that myself as well. It was a budget build. I still had to follow code and sound building practices. Some things you can't skimp on.

It might be 'good enough'. I wouldn't do it.

 

[Diggin It]

I did it the other way around. Set the rebar into the concrete first and let it set a few days. Then drilled the posts and lifted them into place. Used a smaller piece of steel strapping as brackets.

These were only 4 x 4 x 8 posts though and it's only for a shed roof/awning. And I only came an inch or s above ground. And I don't have any codes, permits or inspections to deal with.

 

[Gee Ray]

The OP is in GA. That means there is a good chance of a hurricane or tornado. If you build this to code you must account for the up lift as well as the downward pressure. Even if you have no codes to follow you would want to follow good building practices. A piece of rebar stuck into the end of a 4 x 4 pt post will rate about a zero on the uplift scale. The connector that MossRoad posted is an outstanding way to tie the posts together. There are times to be frugal and there are times to bite the bullet and spend the money. Making the frame of your barn as strong as you can is a wise investment.

 

[3Ts]

Don't forget that wood expands and contracts based on moisture (humidity). As it does this it will crush the fibers in the wood and loosen the grip on the rebar. Eventually it will be loose enough to slip right off. For an example, take a look at the j-bolt embedded in the concrete to hold a sill plate. Tighten those nuts down and a year later you can tighten them some more by hand.

 

[jthibodeau89]

Just make your own version of the sturdy post steel base from 3/16~1/4 x 5 flat bar and #3 rebar in 2.5" sq pattern. Need to have a press brake to bend the flat bar and a welder to assemble rebar cage. 9" diameter post hole 3' deep (not much frost line in GA). 6x6 Square form the concrete above grade 1.5~2'. Through bolt your rough sawn 6×6 timber post. I would personally use 4' rebar rods to get any bending or tensile loads below grade.nerd to rent or purchase a 8~10' concrete vibrator.

I plan to use a similar technique for vineyard trellis end posts. Wife wants organic, so PT is out. Plan to use 10' recycled sch40 4"pipe with a sq cage of #3 rebar and fill with concrete. Once full and deaerated, push on a cap and lay out flat. I have a steep embankment to use for filling pipe. Place cross bars through the buried end to help anchor. PVC pipes are $15 ea. Rebar will be about $20/ post. Total post cost about $45 each, plus my time. 3.5" sch40 galv rigid conduit is $150/10' stick. PT 8"×10' posts are $50, but wife doesnt agree on PT.

 

[duffer]

No matter what solution you choose for the rebar application for the concrete, I whole heartedly concur that you need to get your posts setting above grade, and the finished floor. If you raise the footings to 18"-24" above grade, you'll drastically reduce the probably of termites visiting.

Also, instead of cutting 6"x6" posts with your sawmill, cut 2x6's and laminate 3 of them together, alternating grain patterns. This will likely prevent warping or twisting in the posts over time. And you can inset a beam in the top of it, to carry your trusses, or rafters.

 

[rbstern]

No matter what solution you choose for the rebar application for the concrete, I whole heartedly concur that you need to get your posts setting above grade, and the finished floor. If you raise the footings to 18"-24" above grade, you'll drastically reduce the probably of termites visiting.

Also, instead of cutting 6"x6" posts with your sawmill, cut 2x6's and laminate 3 of them together, alternating grain patterns. This will likely prevent warping or twisting in the posts over time. And you can inset a beam in the top of it, to carry your trusses, or rafters.

Your post brings to mind another potential advantage of the 2x6's laminated: The middle board could extend past the bottom of the other two boards and could be cross-drilled for a piece of rebar, 6" wide, to provide vertical load resistance.

 

[rbstern]

The OP is in GA. That means there is a good chance of a hurricane or tornado. If you build this to code you must account for the up lift as well as the downward pressure. Even if you have no codes to follow you would want to follow good building practices. A piece of rebar stuck into the end of a 4 x 4 pt post will rate about a zero on the uplift scale. The connector that MossRoad posted is an outstanding way to tie the posts together. There are times to be frugal and there are times to bite the bullet and spend the money. Making the frame of your barn as strong as you can is a wise investment.

Not unheard of, but we are actually in one of the least hurricane and tornado prone portions of the state (northeast, near Anderson, SC).

Pondering modifications to the idea. I may build a prototype just to play with.

 

[Gee Ray]

I mean no disrespect but this was very easy to find.

Anderson, SC - Hurricane Information & Risks | Homefacts

Obtain Hurricane information for Anderson, SC. Learn about hurricane risk, hurricane trends, and hurricane patterns in Anderson, South Carolina.

www.homefacts.com

It states that only 26 storms since 1930. That is every 3.5 years, on average. If I was putting up a new barn or house I would want it to be strong enough to live through several storms.

 

[fried1765]

Budget build.

For the price of one of those, I'm 85% of the way to a 16' 6x6 PT post, or halfway to the cost of a 20' 6x6 PT post, which I can use in a traditional, in-ground install, and the barn will likely last longer than I will.

I do love the looks of those, though.

I think MossRoad most definitely has the better idea.
I have 6 x 6 treated posts in my Morton building built in 1984 (now 37 years old).
At 80 now, the building will definitely outlast me.
Given the choice at the time though, I would have opted for those "Perma Column Sturdi Wall" connectors.
I have two sons in their 50's......I seriously doubt that those PT posts will last another 30 years.

 

[rbstern]

I mean no disrespect but this was very easy to find.

Anderson, SC - Hurricane Information & Risks | Homefacts

Obtain Hurricane information for Anderson, SC. Learn about hurricane risk, hurricane trends, and hurricane patterns in Anderson, South Carolina.

www.homefacts.com

It states that only 26 storms since 1930. That is every 3.5 years, on average. If I was putting up a new barn or house I would want it to be strong enough to live through several storms.

No disrespect perceived.

That site reports Anderson County (and Hart County, GA, where I live), as "very low risk hurricane zones." The 26 reported storms since 1930 were within a 150 mile radius. Last storm? Sixteen years ago.

Not saying I shouldn't build a sturdy building; just saying the storm risk in this particular part of the SE U.S. is low. Very low.

 

[HarryMonkey]

No matter where I build, I would use the Simpson Strong-ties (or similar) to anchor the wood to the concrete and at least soak the bottom of the wooden posts in a solution of diesel oil and the Copper anti-termite solution on any piece that touches dirt or concrete---I use a metal barrel and stand the posts in it for a few days---you'll see it soaking upwards. If you check the price of Hurricane ties for attaching rafters, etc. you'll see they are very cheap insurance.