Home electrical help please.

[Fawken]

Without being there it is just guessing. Element on water heater could be open and you'd still get leakage to ground with copper pipes.

 

[Carhartt Cowboy]

...When I rest my 220v 20a water heater breaker,I all of a sudden have power to that side of the elec panel.This breaker is above four of the 120v breakers.When the water heater breaker is tripped,they all loose poser on that side.The thing is,my water heater has it's own circuit.Now I am completely stumped.

You installed the main breaker wrong. One leg does not have continuity from the feeder wire to the bus bar, when you turn on the 220 breaker to the water heater you are back feeding the other half of the panel (the other bus bar).

 

[ben2go]

You installed the main breaker wrong. One leg does not have continuity from the feeder wire to the bus bar, when you turn on the 220 breaker to the water heater you are back feeding the other half of the panel (the other bus bar).

The main breaker can only go in one way.I also did a voltage check at the main breaker.One side is gettin 120v and the other is 98v on the line coming from the main shut off outside.It's been wired like this since the place was set up.Then all sudden,nothing is working properly.

 

[Carhartt Cowboy]

The main breaker can only go in one way.I also did a voltage check at the main breaker.One side is gettin 120v and the other is 98v on the line coming from the main shut off outside.It's been wired like this since the place was set up.Then all sudden,nothing is working properly.

Sorry I was not clear. There is a bad connection between the incoming power wires and the bus bar, if one bus bar is dead. Make sure your connections are tight. Also, you need to measure between the phases, measure those two screws under the breaker, should be 220V same as between the red and black incoming wires

 

[ben2go]

With all the breakers off and measuring the red and black on the incoming power feed to the main breaker.I get 0 volts.If I measure directly to ground,I get 118v on the red and 0v on the black.I get the same on the buss bars.

 

[s219]

So if you turn the main breaker off (thus isolating any potentially screwy circuits in the house or messed up breakers) and then measure each incoming leg and don't see 110V on each to neutral, or 220V across both, then I'd say the problem is upstream of your main breaker! If I am reading things right, that is what it sounds like.

 

[Carhartt Cowboy]

With all the breakers off and measuring the red and black on the incoming power feed to the main breaker.I get 0 volts.If I measure directly to ground,I get 118v on the red and 0v on the black.I get the same on the buss bars.

Go to the other end of the black and red incoming wire, where they are feed from. Probably a 100 amp breaker in your main panel, at the house? See what voltage you have at that end, sounds like there is something wrong at the upstream breaker.

 

[ben2go]

So if you turn the main breaker off (thus isolating any potentially screwy circuits in the house or messed up breakers) and then measure each incoming leg and don't see 110V on each to neutral, or 220V across both, then I'd say the problem is upstream of your main breaker! If I am reading things right, that is what it sounds like.

Correct.With the main breaker off.Red to ground gives me 118v and black to ground gives me 0v.Across black and red gives me 0v.I checked my meter outside.It is giving a level 0 er9 error code.Even at the main shut off, below the meter box,I am getting the same thing.It looks like my problem is two fold.One being my service, and the other being a back feed from the hot water heater.I'll deal with that,once I get stable electrical service.I should know better than to start in the middle.I have a cert in industrial maintenance.Never used it tho.

 

[Carhartt Cowboy]

the other being a back feed from the hot water heater.

Get the incoming power right. You do not have a problem with the back feeding water heater. It was back feeding, feeding through the element, because one of your phases was dead. Once the incoming power is right all should be well.

 

[CobyRupert]

So if you turn the main breaker off (thus isolating any potentially screwy circuits in the house or messed up breakers) and then measure each incoming leg and don't see 110V on each to neutral, or 220V across both, then I'd say the problem is upstream of your main breaker! If I am reading things right, that is what it sounds like.

:thumbsup: The utilities transformer may have a few windings shorted and is only giving you 98V on the one leg. It's also worth double checking the neutral and ground connections, and bonding of the two, in your main disconnect.

^^^^ Lets state a few of ohm's laws. 1. current is same measured anywhere in the circuit. 2. Voltage is different at each spot in a circuit, all voltage drop in a circuit equals the total voltage applied to the circuit i.e. 120V.

He is measuring voltage (pressure) not current (flow). You can have pressure and no flow.

The bad connection has resistance, the balance of the 120V is being dropped (used up) at the bad connection. This is why he is reading low at the places that should be a solid ~120.
.

Don't mean to go on a tangent unrelated to OP's issues, but....When there's no current flowing (i.e. all loads unplugged or off) there is no voltage drop across any resistance (be it a load or bad connection). To use your analogy, you can have great pressure at your faucet until you open the faucet. Try this (actually don't): Lift the white wire on a lighting circuit, turn the light switch on, light will not shine but you can measure 120V from the white wire to ground, because there is no current flowing and no voltage drop across the lamp or anywhere in the circuit. If you now touch the white wire (which some electricians will do/have done because they think White=0 volts /grounded conductor) they will be touching a live conductor. The 120 volts is now split across the resistance of the light bulb and the resistance of their body which completes/ forms 2 loads in series to ground. This is why all multiwire branch circuits that share a common neutral have to be feed from a multipole breaker or breakers with their handles tied together, so that you turn off all breakers associated with that common neutral.

 

[ben2go]

Get the incoming power right. You do not have a problem with the back feeding water heater. It was back feeding, feeding through the element, because one of your phases was dead. Once the incoming power is right all should be well.

Ok thanks for that bit of info.



Also,I want to thank everyone here for lending a hand.Lessons learned,go back to the beginning and work my way down.

 

[techman]

Sounds like an open on the black incoming power. Likely it goes into the meterbase which would have a lock tab from the utility, so not easy to check. You will most likely need co contact them.

paul

 

[Fawken]

I thought this panel was at your house. Is it a mobile home? Why is there Romex coming through the conduit with the service entrance cable?

 

[LD1]

Subscribed.

I agree, call the power company and have them make sure you are good to the meter, and out of the meter. With no power on the black leg, you are feeding your whole house with only 120v, and the fact that the only way to power the other phase is back feeding through one of the double pole breakers can indeed explain the low voltage on that phase.

Keep us updated:thumbsup:

 

[CobyRupert]

I thought this panel was at your house. Is it a mobile home? Why is there Romex coming through the conduit with the service entrance cable?

-Best not ask too many questions, like if this isn't the main service disconnect (and there's a service disconnect upstream) :
- Why are the white neutral wires mixed on the same bus bar as the bare equipment ground conductors?
- Where's the equipment ground conductor coming from the main service disconnect? It seems there's just a bare neutral conductor coming in that terminates on the neutral bus. Is the ground bus in the back right of the panel bonded with the neutral bus in THIS panel ( -downstream of another ground/neutral bond in the main disconnect panel) ? If so, any neutral current in service neutral wire will raise a voltage on every metal enclosure connected to the panel's "ground".

 

[LD1]

-Best not ask too many questions, like if this isn't the main service disconnect (and there's a service disconnect upstream) :

Perhaps this is an old service and grandfathered in, therefore it wont meet "current" code.

 

[kenmac]

To me.. the neutrals appear to be connected on the bottom buss while the bare grounds are on the right hind side buss.. Am I missing something ? Like has been said.. If possible , keep going back until you find where u lost voltage on the black

 

[ben2go]

Thank you everyone for the help and advice.


Power company came out.The service guy and I went through my meter box and and main breaker at the meter.We had bad storms earlier in the day.He said it appears, to him, that lightening may have run in and burn out one side of the 200A main breaker.It took me two days, and many trips into the city, to get the proper GE breakers and lugs to connect everything back up.Everything I was dealing with was really old and was phased out in my area around 40 years ago.I want to show my appreciation to McReys In Boiling Springs,SC for the deal they gave me on the GE 200A breaker,CED Electrics in Spartanburg,SC for hooking me up with CB Electrics that specializes in old home and commercial equipment.CB Electrics gave me a smoking deal on the connecting lugs and hardware.If you need something old,contact CB Electrics.He will ship.Good guy,really easy going.

 

[LD1]

Glad you are back in business without further damage