Help with getting first tractor

[monkeybreath]

I just found this forum - looks great. Here is what I need help with. I have 90 acres of foothill property in California mountains - used primarily for grazing cattle. I need something to help move some dirt around - landscaping, maintain roads (with some road building involving just some scraping and filling - nothing that major - lessening some grades etc. ), moving and/or collecting small boulders - under 500 pounds estimated - for wife's landscaping projects, picking up loads, taking out brush, and I am sure I will find dozens of uses once I have it. I have been looking for something used. I want a front end loader and a box scraper, and a small disk or mower. I have found MasseyFurguson 1240 for $8200 with FEL and box (diesel 4WD) and MF 1125 for with FEL and box for about $9k, but am still looking around. My questions - how much HP should I be looking for , do I want a 4WD, do I want diesel, is an older heavier tractor have the same "umph" as a newer smaller 4WD, and the other dozen questions - issues which I don't know enough to ask about.
Also, because I have discovered this forum, I know a bit about 4 in 1s - which looks like it would provide the utility I could use. Great forum - thanks for any suggestions you can provide.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I would you would want something in the 30-50 HP range. You will need a bit of weight for good earthmoving and digging stability and power. The 4Wd's are nice, however you might want to check out some other used utility tractors in this same HP range, especially if you do some of your maintenance your self. The IH 444 is a good one, the Ford 4000-5000, MF 35. These are about 25-30 year old tractors, but if you get a solid one it will last you many more years. With the dirt moving and loader work you mentioned a tractor in the 3-4 thousand pound range sounds about right for you.

 

[EddieWalker]

I had a Kubota 4X4 on a ranch in Livermore, CA. I didn't think I'd need it, and didn't really want it, but the deal was too good to pass on. I never took it out of 4 wheel drive.

I'm currently looking to buy a new tractor based on the dealers in my area. If you break down and need a part, you want to be able to get it quickly.

 

[grandad]

Welcome to TBN! You'll find lots of interesting knowledge here and lots of opinions, too! Here's my two cents.

Choosing a good used ag tractor can get you started with modest upfront investment. With reasonable care, those older rigs can last forever. The older farm tractors had lots of weight for their horsepower, to pull farm implements like a plow, a baler, etc. Great for working in the field... not so great if you plan to drive across your front yard! Also, those older tractors were built with high ground clearance/center of gravity... not so good if you have hills!

Advantages of choosing new include: a) great financing options right now, b) dealer supported warranty, c) newer features and capabilities (for example, the newer 4WD's are probably safer for loader work, particularly on grades vs. 2WD).

If your finances allow, you should go up one or two notches in the size of equipment you purchase, because the number and scope of projects you tackle inevitably goes beyond what you first anticipated. Without having seen your place, 90 acres of foothill property already sounds like it will call for some respectable equipment... something at least in the 40hp range.


Good luck in your search!

 

[Cacinok]

Ron,

Welcome to to a wealth of information known as Tractorbynet (TBN). First, let me point you to the search button. When I found TBN I spent hours searching previous discussion threads, many topics have been discussed thoroughly. I'm not trying to dissuade you from posting questions, just pointing out an often overlooked resource.

As to your questions. I believe the general rule with HP is that you rarely wish you had less. We have 5 acres and have a 37 hp tractor -- never had a problem not being able pull or lift something. The more HP you have the bigger the implements you'll be able to handle which equals time savings.

4wd is always a benefit and I personally would go that way - especially if your property is hilly. As I mentioned, entire threads have debated 4wd v 2wd (and # of HP for that matter).

Older v newer. This is another one of those potentially long winded discussion questions. But what's older for me 1980, is not older for my neighbor 1949. As long as the older tractor has been cared for and rebuilt when necessary it should have plenty of power to do what you need.

The diesel question is also a can of worms. I went w/ the diesel and have had no complaints. My wife does complain of me smelling like diesel after a day on the tractor (propane would be nice here).

Reviewing my post, I don't know that I've given you much good advice. So let me say this and hope it helps. You've described what you plan to do w/ your tractor so try to match those needs w/ the tractors cabilities. You'll never go wrong w/ more power, or traction. Older compares favorably to newer if you can find one that has been well maintained.

Definitely maker sure there is a good dealer close for whatever you buy -- old or new.

Clint.

 

[monkeybreath]

Thanks guys. I have been looking for about a month and feeling a bit helpless until I found this site. New might be the way to go, my hesitation, however, is that I sort of feel I will be an occasional user and have not been able to convince myself that I should spend that amount of money. But I have looked at the new ones and they beckon. I have searched back through this forum and have benefited greatly from the many similar posts - it seems a number of people found this site in the course of looking for help buying a tractor. I also ran across references to, I think, something called Power trac, and went to that link - interesting. opinions on that option ? By the way, won't be mowing - will get wife a small riding lawn tractor for that. Cows take care of the rest.

 

[Casimir]

Ron:

There is a whole forum dedicated to discussion of the PowerTrac machines - just scroll down a little farther on the Main Index.

Once you have a tractor, I think you will become more than an "occasional user." You will think of a lot of things you can do that the tractor will make easier and more fun /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Welcome to TBN, and keep on readin'.

 

[Golfgar4]

Hello Ron, and welcome! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

One thing you might want to consider is trying out different brands over a weekend. Most reputable dealers will loan out a tractor to a potential customer so that they can try it out. It would be a way to get a better feeling for the different machines out there. By doing that, you might find that the one you think you like the most turns out to be the one that is the most uncomfortable for you to operate.

Of course, this would all depend on the location of the dealer(s) and their willingness to work with you. Then again, if you find a dealer that doesn't seem to be willing to work with you, that tells you something too, doesn't it? I know that finding a quality dealer is one of the top concerns on my list of requirements when I purchase my tractor.

Good luck with your search! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[monkeybreath]

Well, I am at the Rubicon looking accross the water at tractorville. I am prepared to buy a TC29 tomorrow, but now that I have learned a lot here, I can present more intelligent inquiries. First, I want to ask if the TC 29 with 25 pto hp will be OK for my uses, which I will outline below, and want to ask if the deal is a good one.

First, while we have 90 acres, it is my intent to first rent a dozer or hire one to complete major tasks of reducing grades on back roads, any major dirt I want moved around or areas leveled, take care of derferred maintenance on back roads, put in a culvert and put a road across it, and maybe tackle a pond.

Then, I will use my tractor (assume a TC 29) as follows:

- maintain roads (have a tenth of a mile drive way now road oil over DG, but thinking of graveling / have about a mile of back roads (winding / flat and with slopes going from 2400 to 4200 elevation) back roads are dirt and DG.
-mowing under an acre total in different spots, will need to do that only about 4-6 times a year given climate and rainfall patterns
-move material around for landscaping uses and projects ( a few times a year)
-take fence posts and material around the back property on trailer (a few times a year).
-pick up and haul in small boulders from back of property for my wife's landscaping projects (size from size of a fat cat to size of a couple of 80 lb cement bags stacked)(only a few times and then very infrequently if at all)
-some trenching initially (if I get a back hoe or other implement)- for water lines, then rarely
-backfill behind rocks or rr ties laid to terrace areas (at first and then as projects come to mind)
-haul cut firewood from back of property (once a year)
-general grooming of property around house and area (from time to time)
-clean corral area, restore slopes into barn
-build corral fences - (once - hopefully)
-level an area here and there if needed - small areas
-use FEL to gain height to top and prune tree
-and whatever I can do to get seat time

Will a TC 29 be adequate ? a close call ? need more HP ?

How important will the HST be for these uses ? (dealer advises he would suggest the HST if I was going to be doing a lot of FEL work, and on the tractor regularly for several hours, or if it was my strong preference, he said he will reasses tomorrow after I detail my uses for him - our contact today was by phone)

Dealer says he will put on the heaviest / best box he has for the size of this tractor, and will price out a mower, PHD and back hoe tomorrow when I go down there.

The deal is $14,400 for TC 29, 7308 FEL, and box. Will finance with 20% down at 0 % interest for three years. Tractor is lease return with 120 hours. Full warranty. Because I have cattle here, I get a break on sales tax - some program I was not aware of but dealer said I would qualify. I note that another post today advises a deal of TC29D with FEL and 60" mower for $17,000 delivered, if I recall it correctly.

I am ready to buy this now as is less than Kubotas I have found, though I wanted a Kubota at one point, and the dealer seems honest and interested in getting it right for me. Should I keep looking, get the TC29 D (with HST), go larger, or . . .

(note - I also found a used Kubota today a 2000 model, 37 hp L4310 with loader, 720 hours, but was about $21,500 and last years model of a new Kubota GST(not sure which model) with 20 pto hp with FEL and box for about $17,500)

Brands I have been looking at: NH / Kubota / Kioti

Sorry for the long post, but now that I am ready, need a final bit of advice.

 

[frank_f15]

seems like all the uses u have for the tractor , will be well within the range of the 29, and it seems like u are in love with it already. and hst is the way to go, but that it is just mho /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[monkeybreath]

Thanks for the input re hp - that was the first issue I wanted to put behind me. I am not necessarily in love with it, actually liked the new Kubotas, and may check them once more to clarify their prices, but my recall is that for similar horse power and features, about $2000 more - though I think the shifting system was easier - more convenient. After a while some of the features and differences blur a bit. I was pretty much set on HST even for the additional money and I am going to see what that would price out at.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

My first reaction was to the 90 acres - seemed like you might need more tractor (I remember someone talking about a mgical HP/acre ratio). Then I started reading your list of projects, and I'm already doing all that (except the trenching) with a TC18, except for the distances involved. The biggest difference I can see is that once you get those roads smoothed out, you might be able to use the 3-speed-15 mph of the 29 rather than the 2-speed-10mph of the 18 (although I've only used high range a few times, and never at full speed).

Then I note that you are getting the 29 for less money than I paid for my 18. If it were me, I would say to the dealer, "I don't necessarily want it yesterday, but this morning would be fine..."

I will add that I love my HST, and probably wouldn't buy a tractor without it, now. But, this was my first tractor, and for your price, I would have bought a gear model and never known what I was missing.

 

[Casimir]

Mokeybreath:

You have the right idea hiring a dozer for the heavy work. With the hills you describe (2400 ft to 4200 ft elev), I would strongly suggest hiring a dozer with an experienced operator. They can be tricky on hills - not as easy to roll as a wheel tractor, but they can be rolled if you don't have enough training and experience using one. However, they will do a lot more work in a short time than your 29D.

Sounds like the TC29D with HST is a good choice for the rest of your jobs. You might consider renting a mini-excavator for the </font><font color="blue" class="small">( "trenching initially (if I get a back hoe or other implement)- for water lines, then rarely
" )</font>. A backhoe or 3-pt trencher are very expensive investments if you won't have a continuing use for them.

Good luck. And welcome to TBN. Sounds like a fair price.

 

[monkeybreath]

thanks for tips - I will be hiring a dozer operator. Didn't even know about mini-excavators but will check them out - sounds like what I need and I was not wanting to pay a lot for other implements which I did not use much. The NH for which I received the quote was the TC29 not the TC29D with HST. As I really wanted HST , based on what I read here, I am still going to see what I can do to get the HST (with NH or Kubota). Want / need a tractor but trying to be patient.

 

[TresCrows]

Since your wife mows with a dedicated mower unit and you have 90 acres mostly used for cows I think you need a medium size Grande L Kubota--like a 3410 etc. Not to big, not to small. I got to drive one when I picked up oil and filter for my little 2410 recently. It was the new design, very slick, sleek and operated super smooth. J

 

[monkeybreath]

Here in Calif Kubota prices seem higher than I am seeing posted by others. I think the 3410 will be too much money. I obtained a quote for a 3130 GST this morning and it was at $20,000 with FEL and box. Also strange, I cannot find any Case dealer within 200 miles who handles the DX line, and cannot find a Kioti dealer at all- even tho some are listed as handling Kioti, when you call, they tell you they now have other brands. Given all of that, it seems I am limited to a few brands. If I can get over not having HST, the NH TC29 (with 120 hours) at $14,400 with 7308 FEL and a good box seems like it might work. There may be a few lease returns on Kubotas and will check on that this afternoon. Also, finding very few HSTs even in stock at the dealers, whether NH or Kubota.

 

[Typhoon]

I don't know if you got it yet, but I replied to your email. I didnt finance the tractor, I paid cash so I am not sure what the current deals are, but I recall them being 36 months 0% I think. Like you, I did alot of research before making a decision. I can honestly say that there probably isnt another dealer on the planet that can beat that price. If there is, I would be very surprised. To give you an idea of what im saying, I got quotes from 3 other NH dealers, they were all between 19,800.00 and 22,500.00 with all of the options I mentioned. My rig is costing me 17k, and that is including delivery!! I couldnt turn it down. Im sure many will agree that this rig is worth every bit of 17k and much more. Best of luck in your search. Oh and also, in my opinion, the TC29 will be MORE than enough tractor for what you are going to use it for.
-Brad

 

[Casimir]

Guess I missed the fact that it was not the 29D. You might want to see about the TC30HST. Don't know what they are selling for in your area, but I was quoted $15,500 not long ago for the TC30HST with FEL. Box Blade would probably add another $500.

The fact that there aren't many HSTs on the lot may just mean they are selling them as fast as they can get them in. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I don't want to start another Gear/Hydrostat debate, but I really love mine, especially after having a gear tractor before it. Personally, I think it is well worth the extra $, and if you are financing, it probably will make less than $20 per month difference in your payment -- not much for something you may have for many years.